You’re right that “…” means an infinite number of 9s. For math pedantry though, it’s a countably infinite number of 9s. I.e., you can count to every individual 9. There are bigger infinities which are uncountable.
Yes. 0.99 repeating and 1 are the same number in base 10; the most basic proof is that 1/3=0.3333…, and 1/3*3=1; so 0.3333…*3=0.9999…=1.
This is only confusing it you refuse to accept that the same value can be represented in different ways, and are not familiar with other bases (like hexadecimal or octal). In a base 9 system (where 8 is immediately followed by 10), 10/3=3 and 3*3=10.
Actually, in the surreals the equality still works and 0.99999…+ϵ>1. It inherits that from the hyperreals. As best I can remember. It’s been nearly 1/ϵ since I’ve looked at this stuff.
In the surreals you have an embarrassingly large number of candidates for ϵ and would need subscripts to tell them apart, if only you had enough subscripts.
Maybe it’s the sexual equivalent of going “2+2= fish (drawing of a fish).” Like, yeah, I see how you combined those parts, that’s not how we usually put them together, but alright.
By viewing her sexy times with Joe as lesbian sex, Joyce begins to further conceptualize the idea that she might be able to do a lesbian sex with Dorothy, thereby cementing her realization that she’s not as straight as she thought she was.
Her reaction kind of comes off as affirmed, rather than negative, like this kind of frees her from an arbitrary goalpost, rather than having a milestone retroactively taken away from her.
Maybe this is a good thing rather than bad. Very interesting….
PiV sex can still be a milestone for her. Less focus on the loss of virginity as the Ultimate Moment or whatever allows more room for recognizing many different milestones.
You’re not supposed to say it’s okay for people to consider PiV significant. You’re supposed to brush it over and act like nothing has any weight under any circumstances and anyone who cares about anything to any degree is personally eroding the fabric of society.
You got the back half right. The first half actually comes second, and goes more like “and everyone else’s literally ate my parents so it can’t be allowed”.
this sort of reads like some “let boys be masculine” nonsense. Im guessing you didn’t mean it that way and are just still annoyed with like 2 people from yesterday’s comment section, it’s just a little funny.
I think what Perpetual meant is that its similar to people who are aggressively defending the “right” to be masculine when, nobody is taking that away just by saying it’s also okay for a guy to wear a skirt. Similarly, nobody is really saying “nobody should ever have PIV sex”, we’re just in an era where we’re finally recognizing and normalizing all the many, many different types of sex that aren’t that
Totally, which makes total sense given her interest in a To-Do List in the past, even if a lot of it is outercourse that is sort of like “armpit sex? sure, why not”, rather than something I anticipate she’d have a lasting interest in past the novelty factor. Room to explore.
This was my first thought when i saw that Joe was going hand style that this would somehow be what sets the train in motion to Joyce being able to actually put the pieces together about being bisexual. Joyce has sort of drifted out of virginity which seems about right for how things actually go in reality being a sexual being isn’t this huge super saiyan awakening or anything it’s just a part of being human methinks???
I wonder if Becky really does know Joyce is Bi already and is just following the Prime Directive in not saying anything about it. I’ve gotten that read since book 5 or so TBH.
The prime directive is to not tell people who haven’t yet figured out that they’re trans, that they’re trans. And that can be easily extrapolated to lesbians/bi people/etc.
In the same way that in star trek messing with a pre warp civilization is a huge idea and can totally derail their development as a species telling someone you think is queer that they’re queer rather than let them come to the conclusion on their own could completely derail their development or they could outright reject it. (there is also the chance that you just end up flat out being wrong and making a total ass out of yourself too!) I think a lot of the jokes thrown Joyce’s way about being gay are a good example of why it’s important to follow it. By making fun of her and joking about it she became actively more resistant to the idea of being attracted to women.
It is also very funny to see that Becky here is essentially acting out first contact now lmao
Okay, but which version of the PD are we talking about here? “Just don’t get caught or let them see you”, or “do not, under any circumstances, interfere with the Holy Plan lest you be smote for your hubris“?
The Trans Prime Directive is a lot more lenient than the Star Trek one; you don’t have to pretend trans people *don’t exist* (yay, 60’s stealth-or-die is mostly dead!). Flying a shuttle over your should-be-questioning friend and showering them with warp drive schematics or lists of informed-consent HRT doctors, on the other hand, is still a no-no
It’s a different thing but I for one would have greatly appreciated if someone had given me a hint I’m adhd before it took me a whooping THIRTY YEARS to figure that one out, when apparently it was perfectly obvious to everyone else T-T
I do think a medical diagnosis is a tad different from a question of identity in this regard. You should be allowed to decide your identity for yourself in light of the way you interpret your experiences, and people deciding for you can screw that up. Whereas no amount of information or lack thereof was gonna modify your brain chemistry, and at least once you know you can decide if you want meds.
There’s a contingent of us like you who disagree with the very principle of the “Trans Prime Directive.” It’s bullshit. Many of us don’t even have the possibility of being trans in our head, and still more require help getting from “maybe this is a thing” to “oh I am probably trans.”
I’m with Dina in regarding “virginity” as a harmful social construct, but I think you could make a case that mouth-to-genitals is sex in a way that fingwrs-to-genitals isn’t quite, to riff on the conversation of today and yesterday between them
I mean, I honestly am with Dina, I”m just saying I could see why some people might regard sucking/licking as more “sex” than poking/stroking. Also I’m sorry to phrase it as grossly as possible.
It was, which is why I specifically mentioned not really knowing what I was going for with it. As an American, I’m allowed to recognize my own rudeness whenever I feel like it.
The cultural obsession with Virginity and how it mean Purity and Cleanliness and Goodness for women and Patheticness and Weakness and Detestability for men is obviously harmful and self-destructive and should be fired into the sun.
But having a concept of “person who is interested in having sex and never has” isn’t a terrible thing on its own. Our relationship with sex is a very human subject to deal with, and having broad terms to help us define things, even if they’re inaccurate and clumsy and very prone to misuse, isn’t horrific on its own…
Similar concept to when I was called a “lesbian with a penis” back right before the turn of the century. Because I was skilled in pleasuring women without using my penis.
She had fun with someone she loves, and he had fun too. That’s all that counts. Not if she kept or lost her virginity, did they have fun and share their love.
Technically the strict definition of “sexual intercourse” requires penetration, and the strict definition of virgin is “hasn’t had sexual intercourse” – if Joe didn’t put his finger inside Joyce, she’s still a virgin.
Yeah. Apparently the U.S. criminal code (18 U.S.C.) considers hand-stuff a “sex act” when applied to orifices but not to protuberances. So under federal law, what Joyce first did for Joe was not “sex”, but what Joe did later for Joyce was “sex”.
Seems a bit arbitrary if ya ask me. Kinda sexist, too. Like a lot of things about that particular set of laws. (Actually, that *particular* set of laws was primarily and explicitly used for the purpose of racism, but sexism was a big part of it too.)
…Yeah. You know you’re a pedant when you turn to legal code sections to try to understand what sex is…
Citing the U.S. criminal code, despite being a frequent occurrence on this site, is typically not going to give a result that applies to normal human interactions.
The US Penile code says that unless you got your P in the V (or vice versa), or as the kids say these days, your D in the P (or vice versa), then you’re still a virgin.
It sure is really inconvenient that Dorothy is having a crisis right now. Because this is something Joyce would definitely need to talk to her about. Other bestie would clear the nonsense.
I mean, I guess she could attempt to talk to Sarah but…
Depending on where this goes, this could actually be quite wholesome? That’s not the word I’m looking for exactly, but: Joyce built up sex in her head to this defining moment. Good or Bad, it was this Big Event that needed ceremony and announcement and fanfare. And then she had sex with Joe, admittedly a different type of sex than she was imagining, but sex. And she woke up, she and Joe still had cute snuggle times, she has existed in the world feeling normal and comfortable with her decision, she hasn’t been smote, nothing terrible has happened, she hasn’t felt on display or ashamed in the aftermath. She and Joe just did A Fun Thing, and she carried on as basically normal.
It turns out that The Fun Thing was sex, and all of the above is still true. Nothings ruined, she isn’t changed forever, she hasn’t reevaluated her entire being. I kinda hope, even if I don’t really have high hopes that it will be this easy, that this let’s Joyce demystify sex a bit.
So, when is Joyce going to realize that holding someone’s hand while you both cum counts as sex and that Dorothy was actually the first person she fucked?
Pretty sure that’d be group masturbation, if the parties involved didn’t provide stimulation to each other. Joyce kicked Dotty out of the room to finish doing her laundry, though.
I appreciate Dina still giving lipservice to Becky’s definition of Virginity despite not herself believing in it. Insomuch that as a virgin, I often find there’s space between the idea of “Virginity is a harmful concept” and “Virginity is a useful description”.
This is further evidence towards me thesis that Becky would not necessarily be crushed to discover that Joyce did, indeed, Have the Gay, Just Too Late, but, rather, would simply use it as validation that she was right all along.
… in retrospect. Seeing as how Joe is basically tied with Becky for how often he talks about how hot chicks are. I *really* should have realized he was a lesbian before this.
Also on this talk of virginity, I wanna talk about how I learned the word virgin, because my grandma is a fundie like Joyce’s family. She’d taken me to church, they’d talked a lot that day about the Virgin Mary, so I asked her. “What’s a virgin?”. She explained it means someone who hasn’t had sex. I was like, 12, and excited at the idea of sharing something with Mary so I proudly told her “Oh, I’m a virgin too” and my grandma shut me down with “Sure, but Mary is the ONE TRUE virgin”.
Also, the idea fundies have that Mary never had sex with her husband after birthing Jesus is so funny. Like sorry Joseph. You get to raise a son you didn’t conceive and you don’t get to have any kids of your own. Get fucked, as decreed by God himself.
According to my Orthodox brother, those were Joseph’s children from a previous marriage.
I could’ve sworn that one of the disciples was Jesus’ brother, but aside from that I gave him bombastic side eye at the idea that Joseph and Mary did nothing the entire rest of their marriage.
James the Just was Jesus’ brother. Though if you really don’t want Mary to ever have had sex, for Reasons, you can use the fact that there’s no separate Aramaic or Greek word for “cousin,” allowing you to justify James the Just (and all Jesus’ other siblings) were as his cousins, listed as siblings.
I just can’t believe one of main division between Catholics and Protestants exists, because a buch of people took the “hey, hey, this is my bro James, yo?” so much serious from Jesus
Lots of Protestant denominations also aren’t really fond of actual full brothers of Jesus. Plenty of ways around it – including that they’re Joseph’s kids from a previous marriage. Which probably ties to the tradition that Joseph was an old man when he married virgin Mary – which might make the not ever having sex part more believable.
None of this – beyond the conception being without her having sex – is in the Bible itself of course. And even that only in two Gospels.
I feel like once you get into Mary being immaculately conceived and therefore born free of original sin, you don’t want to then have her get into humanity’s sinful nature or whatever later. Also, with the immaculate conception, was God like a donor so he sort of fathered Mary like he did Jesus? Or was it like godly IVF with her human parents?
The stepson part isn’t bizarre but the expectation for Mary to never ever ever ever have sex is bizarre. What about Mary’s needs? Desires? She can’t have those, she birthed the Savior! She is forever and always now a sexless amoeba who’s only job was spitting out One Child and she didn’t even get to have the Big O to make that child. She gets to hold her dead son and that’s all she ever gets to do now.
This is the first genuine laugh this comic’s gotten out of me in a while. Love how we can always count on Joyce’s intractability to lead her to the most incoherent conclusions.
There’s always going to be a chance someone says tomorrow’s punchline, though, even if that someone doesn’t have Patreon access. If that makes you enjoy it less when it happens, you might consider a different angle of looking at it, like “Wow, this person predicted it”, rather than “This person ruined my enjoyment”.
Omg, *and* she’s list bro?? She has that deep stain of misogyny and objectification in her history? One which she thought she had grappled with, that she thought she had made up for, but now she’s on the other side. And she really, truly, genuinely has to experience what it was like for the women on her list? It’s not just a hypothetical other anymore, it’s *her*, and all of her sisters, it was always about *her* and women like *her*. And maybe the whole rating thing wasn’t just about attraction, but about her repressed desires, her need, the one she never listened to but always knew?
But the impulse still lives inside her. She still thinks, instinctively, unbidden, who she’d give a 5 for her flat tits, or a 10 for her angry, domineering air. She can’t stop the thoughts, can’t push them away. Can’t stop being the predator she always was. As a man ranking every woman she met and treating them as sex objects. As a trans girl sneaking her way into women’s spaces and tricking her partner into a lesbian relationship she had already turned down twice. Or as a dyke, and a butch, and all the inherent predation of being a woman outside patriarchial norms….
God the drama of it all! The anxiety and fear behind every moment of this tall beefy tgirl dyke! Ahhhhhhh!!
Oh, and her father. Leah’s dad already represented already represented the worst sins of man to her. Was already the archetype of what she was going to turn into, with time. A man who continually hurt the women in his life, for his lust, a lust which she shares. He is the masculinity she is running away from, the thing she’s always running away from, and she never feels like she’s far enough.
What does he say when she comes out? Does he make an off color joke in the wrong moment? Does he immediately sexualize his daughter, the way he immediately sexualized Amber? Does their relationship ever really recover from that, the way it’s never really recovered from the divorce? Does Leah ever forgive him? Or is he always, always, the thing she’s running away from? Her 6’4″, 400lb, mountain of a father, who she resembles so much and wants to be so little?
I hope Dina pops on over just to give Joyce a legit sex talk. Which I think Dina would have extensive knowledge of sex now just to spite everyone. Or that’s what I like to believe anyways lol
…Dina probably does have extensive knowledge of sex now. She has sex with Becky pretty regularly. It’s not the sort of thing she’d start doing without research.
Just because way too many men are neglecting fingers and tongues or consider them foreplay, doesn’t make it less straight (or bi, of course) to have sex as a woman with a man.
Penetrative-only isn’t more straight, it’s just less imaginative.
I dunno why so many guys get hung up on that shit. I get some people just aren’t into certain textures/feelings but my god fingering and oral legit feels EXTREMELY good for me to give. It is absolutely sex, and I 100% agree with Dina that virginity as an extremely harmful construct. Kissing feels good because we like rubbing our soft parts together. It’s not rocket science.
If you have directly given or received sexual pleasure to someone, there is no point in calling yourself a virgin anymore.
No, but for real though. Cunnilingus is fun as hell, repeatable as long as the recipient wants more, and guys who could be doing it, but won’t, are pussies.
Joyce engaging in the time honored bisexual girl tradition of pretending her cishet relationship is somehow queer instead of just being in a queer relationship
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Joyce… no… just no.
No, no, I think she’s got it. Now she just needs to have straight sex with Dorothy and everything will be good.
Sex with Dorothy will require
-a strap-on
-spinning in place like a top
-the use of the phrase “let it rip”
Don’t forget spreadsheets.
Why does straight sex with Dorothy seem kinkier than anything Joyce and Joe have done so far?
Sex with spreadsheets would involve Faz, I think. Not an image I needed.
No no no no, Faz’s thing is charts. It’s fine. We’re all fine here.
… How are you?
If not spreadsheets, then slide deck presentations.
No, no – that’d be Also With Faz.
Only if the slide deck includes charts.
And excel easily contains charts
To top it all off they can do it in the laundry room. It’s THEIR spot.
And it has enough room to spread sheets.
And it simplifies PSCU.
Did you by chance mean to say Sportsheets?
https://www.sportsheets.com/products/sportsheets-king?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20234412460&utm_content=&utm_term=&gadid=&gad_source=5&gad_campaignid=20234414803&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2-aO2dPAjQMVxR6tBh0zGBgMEAAYASAAEgLc0PD_BwE
or, y’know, just
https://www.sportsheets.com/products/sportsheets-king
We don’t need to know you got there by googling it (“utm_source=google”), for example.
LOL, the “verify you’re 18” page only loads long after the photo does.
someone needs to find a smooth jazz version of the Bey Blade let er rip song.
Joyce is a Beyblade confirmed
perhaps some soaking? no wait, that doesn’t count as sex. but yeah, go have straight sex with Dorothy Joyce. ~<3
Now I’m imagining Dorothy’s pain when Joyce asks her to be the friend that bounces on the bed.
Joyce is a size six, remember.
Those do come in a size six, right?
They’re designed to be adjustable, hence the “strap” part.
Neither Joyce nor I knew that. But I don’t know if someone will tell her.
Some very unexpected things would have to happen for Joyce to be able to have straight sex with Dorothy.
Yeah, I don’t think they’d cheat, and I’m really not sure how the cast would feel about entering a poly relationship, but it could happen.
Joyce yes!
This is the sexual equivalent of “.999… = 1”. You understand the logic of how they got there, but… no, no, its not…
With the way infinity works, .999… actually is equal to 1. Infinities are weird man.
It may as well be. How often are you using .999 of something instead of one of it? Unless you’re a pharmacist or some other kind of specialist.
How often do you use one of something instead of one of something? There is no difference. Try subtracting .999999999… from 1 and see what you get.
I’ve just now noticed the “…” everyone else is typing. From context, it seems to indicate an uncountable amount of 9s.
Pretty much. The usual way of notating it in math is to put a line over the repeating digits, but I don’t think that formatting exists on this site.
You’re right that “…” means an infinite number of 9s. For math pedantry though, it’s a countably infinite number of 9s. I.e., you can count to every individual 9. There are bigger infinities which are uncountable.
…but in that case it literally is, though?
Yes. 0.99 repeating and 1 are the same number in base 10; the most basic proof is that 1/3=0.3333…, and 1/3*3=1; so 0.3333…*3=0.9999…=1.
This is only confusing it you refuse to accept that the same value can be represented in different ways, and are not familiar with other bases (like hexadecimal or octal). In a base 9 system (where 8 is immediately followed by 10), 10/3=3 and 3*3=10.
Sure it is. The difference is infinitely small, i.e. 0.
Maybe in the surreals 0.999… = 1-ϵ != 1, depending on how you define the continuing decimal notation… 😛
but yeah in the reals 0.999… = 1.
Actually, in the surreals the equality still works and 0.99999…+ϵ>1. It inherits that from the hyperreals. As best I can remember. It’s been nearly 1/ϵ since I’ve looked at this stuff.
In the surreals you have an embarrassingly large number of candidates for ϵ and would need subscripts to tell them apart, if only you had enough subscripts.
It literally is, tho.
Maybe it’s the sexual equivalent of going “2+2= fish (drawing of a fish).” Like, yeah, I see how you combined those parts, that’s not how we usually put them together, but alright.
No, fish is for the Lambert W function. Learned that one from Youtube.
That’s for when Joyce has straight sex with Dorothy.
It’s Diogenes logic, it holds up
*Drags in Joe* “Behold, a lesbian!”
JOYCE YES!!!
Joe is a lesbian confirmed.
Looking forward to her telling him.
Dorothy should tell him.
Well…okay but only if she uses spreadsheets or slide deck presentations.
Joe getting a male lesbian pass was not on my DoA 2025 bingo card
“Chicks are rad!”, as Becky would say. 😉
Looking at past strips, I guess there was a lot of subtext suggesting he was attracted to ladies, wasn’t there?
+1 Interwebz
joyce yes…. YES
well that’s one way to have the epiphany
joseph rosenthal, lesbian sex-haver
Joe, who previously claimed to be a lesbian for misogynistic humor reasons, devastated to learn he actually is a lesbian
Why would he be devastated?
Yeah, he gets to communicate with forest creatures, innate darkvision, and access to earth magic at level 12. Cool bennies.
https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3790
+1 Excellent reference; I love both QC, and DoA.
He shouldn’t be, he just has a bigger arsenal of weapons of pleasure to use on his lady.
I approve of this conclusion
Me too, it’s adorable, as is Becky’s response.
SESBIAN LEX!
It’s called digital sex, Joyce.
but there aren’t any computers involved
Digital can also refer to your fingers, or “digits” as they are sometimes called.
It can also mean your toes, which seems like it would be a very different sex
It’s only digital if a wristwatch is involved.
That’s cybersex.
…. which actually means something like “command-and-control-feedback-loop” sex, yet is not a Dom/Sub thing.
I’d ask what analogue is but I think I figured it out.
Gonna share with the class?
It’s the one that involves a joystick.
see, the big hand is on the
Digital sex? So she’s bi(nary)sexual?
She had digital sex with Joe *twice*!
r/angryupvote
By viewing her sexy times with Joe as lesbian sex, Joyce begins to further conceptualize the idea that she might be able to do a lesbian sex with Dorothy, thereby cementing her realization that she’s not as straight as she thought she was.
I can see her offering to finger Dorothy and still thinking she’s straight.
I mean, the first time is free.
According to Jennifer, reigning champion of being honest with yourself.
Totally trustworthy Billingsworth. Solidly reliable advice giver, that one.
Her reaction kind of comes off as affirmed, rather than negative, like this kind of frees her from an arbitrary goalpost, rather than having a milestone retroactively taken away from her.
Maybe this is a good thing rather than bad. Very interesting….
PiV sex can still be a milestone for her. Less focus on the loss of virginity as the Ultimate Moment or whatever allows more room for recognizing many different milestones.
You’re not supposed to say it’s okay for people to consider PiV significant. You’re supposed to brush it over and act like nothing has any weight under any circumstances and anyone who cares about anything to any degree is personally eroding the fabric of society.
I was under the impression the rule was don’t decide it for other people, but you can have your own for yours?
You got the back half right. The first half actually comes second, and goes more like “and everyone else’s literally ate my parents so it can’t be allowed”.
this sort of reads like some “let boys be masculine” nonsense. Im guessing you didn’t mean it that way and are just still annoyed with like 2 people from yesterday’s comment section, it’s just a little funny.
That’s a strange read to me, because none of those words were in my comment. Absolutely nothing to do with masculinity.
I think what Perpetual meant is that its similar to people who are aggressively defending the “right” to be masculine when, nobody is taking that away just by saying it’s also okay for a guy to wear a skirt. Similarly, nobody is really saying “nobody should ever have PIV sex”, we’re just in an era where we’re finally recognizing and normalizing all the many, many different types of sex that aren’t that
sounds like you care about them caring 🤔
That’s the goal of the sentiment
We have a moral duty to control what others are and aren’t allowed to care about.
And here I was pretty sure our moral duty was to make fun of it.
Totally, which makes total sense given her interest in a To-Do List in the past, even if a lot of it is outercourse that is sort of like “armpit sex? sure, why not”, rather than something I anticipate she’d have a lasting interest in past the novelty factor. Room to explore.
from a scale of facepalm to headdesk, it’s…
wait, what does using a sex toy count as
Enhanced masturbation.
Arson
You got an actual LOL from me, thanks.
That can’t be, Arson gave the world the Seattle Mariners, and they’re the biggest cockteases in baseball!
GOD TOO REAL
I’m in physical pain from laughing too much; thank you.
The Arse-on is a very specific type of strap-on.
If Joe uses one on Joyce, and Joyce reaches orgasm, it’s a shared kink.
Depends who is giving and who is receiving. If both are you, good for you.
My friends have a joke about Handholding (not sex), Kissing (not sex), Advanced Handholding (sex), and Advanced Kissing (sex).
She and Dorothy have already done Advanced Laundry, and now she’s done Advanced Handholding with Joe.
If that helps us decide whether a Maytag is a sex toy…
Depends on who’s driving.
(Which could lead to arson. You never know.)
If you don’t set the world on fire, what have you accomplished?
Now all she needs to do is straight sex with Dorothy.
Next strip: Becky has Joyce tied to a chair and is forcibly brainwashing her into saying she hates men and would never be attracted to a man.
The Womanchurian Candidate
So Dotty Presidency is still on??
Always has been.
(*astronaut meme)
This was my first thought when i saw that Joe was going hand style that this would somehow be what sets the train in motion to Joyce being able to actually put the pieces together about being bisexual. Joyce has sort of drifted out of virginity which seems about right for how things actually go in reality being a sexual being isn’t this huge super saiyan awakening or anything it’s just a part of being human methinks???
I wonder if Becky really does know Joyce is Bi already and is just following the Prime Directive in not saying anything about it. I’ve gotten that read since book 5 or so TBH.
What’s this Prime Directive you speak of?
The prime directive is to not tell people who haven’t yet figured out that they’re trans, that they’re trans. And that can be easily extrapolated to lesbians/bi people/etc.
In the same way that in star trek messing with a pre warp civilization is a huge idea and can totally derail their development as a species telling someone you think is queer that they’re queer rather than let them come to the conclusion on their own could completely derail their development or they could outright reject it. (there is also the chance that you just end up flat out being wrong and making a total ass out of yourself too!) I think a lot of the jokes thrown Joyce’s way about being gay are a good example of why it’s important to follow it. By making fun of her and joking about it she became actively more resistant to the idea of being attracted to women.
It is also very funny to see that Becky here is essentially acting out first contact now lmao
Okay, but which version of the PD are we talking about here? “Just don’t get caught or let them see you”, or “do not, under any circumstances, interfere with the Holy Plan lest you be smote for your hubris“?
The Trans Prime Directive is a lot more lenient than the Star Trek one; you don’t have to pretend trans people *don’t exist* (yay, 60’s stealth-or-die is mostly dead!). Flying a shuttle over your should-be-questioning friend and showering them with warp drive schematics or lists of informed-consent HRT doctors, on the other hand, is still a no-no
wait is that all you have to do to get warp drive schematics
Smitten.
Smite, smote, smitten. Like ride, rode, ridden.
This implies that trans people get FTL powers, and I am very jealous.
Transwarp tubes are canon
They are.
Huh.
It’s a different thing but I for one would have greatly appreciated if someone had given me a hint I’m adhd before it took me a whooping THIRTY YEARS to figure that one out, when apparently it was perfectly obvious to everyone else T-T
I do think a medical diagnosis is a tad different from a question of identity in this regard. You should be allowed to decide your identity for yourself in light of the way you interpret your experiences, and people deciding for you can screw that up. Whereas no amount of information or lack thereof was gonna modify your brain chemistry, and at least once you know you can decide if you want meds.
There’s a contingent of us like you who disagree with the very principle of the “Trans Prime Directive.” It’s bullshit. Many of us don’t even have the possibility of being trans in our head, and still more require help getting from “maybe this is a thing” to “oh I am probably trans.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive important enough to have a whole real wikipedia page!!! Basically in star trek they have a rule not to mess with pre space faring civilizations so you don’t hijack their own development.
Man, fuck that. If I came across some pre-space aliens, I’d give ’em a PlayStation and see what they did with it.
If I came across some pre-space aliens, I’d definitely tell them they were trans.
I’d give them weed, just because hey, if they gotta learn how to cultivate on their own, at least they could have a great time afterwards XD
Dina is right.
Awe no more Dina strips this storyline 😢
Joe is the best Lesbian. Get him more flannels and let him roam free in a Home Depot with his people.
Joe would be a very cute lesbian.
I’m with Dina in regarding “virginity” as a harmful social construct, but I think you could make a case that mouth-to-genitals is sex in a way that fingwrs-to-genitals isn’t quite, to riff on the conversation of today and yesterday between them
Yeah yeah, a virgin ran over your grandma, what the fuck ever.
That’s pretty harsh for someone just stating their beliefs in a neutral way.
Yeah, I’m not really sure what I was going for there.
I mean, I honestly am with Dina, I”m just saying I could see why some people might regard sucking/licking as more “sex” than poking/stroking. Also I’m sorry to phrase it as grossly as possible.
Nah, you could have made it way grosser, but we’re all thankful for you sparing us that.
Seems super rude.
So is tone policing that no one asked for.
It was, which is why I specifically mentioned not really knowing what I was going for with it. As an American, I’m allowed to recognize my own rudeness whenever I feel like it.
Now see, the best thing about being an American is not having to know anything about history and only barely needing to know anything about geography.
I’m mixed on it, honestly.
The cultural obsession with Virginity and how it mean Purity and Cleanliness and Goodness for women and Patheticness and Weakness and Detestability for men is obviously harmful and self-destructive and should be fired into the sun.
But having a concept of “person who is interested in having sex and never has” isn’t a terrible thing on its own. Our relationship with sex is a very human subject to deal with, and having broad terms to help us define things, even if they’re inaccurate and clumsy and very prone to misuse, isn’t horrific on its own…
Dunno. Sorting out some thoughts here, I guess.
Yes, you’re correct. It’s fine to have words for things that don’t sound like Harry Potter spells.
“Virginity” is Latin with an English suffix. It’s like one letter away from being a Harry Potter spell.
I refuse to cede any ground to that woman; she can have “ownership” of the Latin language over my dead body.
Yeah, humanity has been butchering Latin for ages before she ever came around, she doesn’t own that.
There are lots of places she could have gotten it from but it feels wholly lifted from bedknobs and broomsticks and maybe the sword in the stone.
Nopenis Envaginus!
that’s going to hurt Dotty’s pride more
Trying desperately to not have to explain to folks on VC why I’m losing it right now.
she’s changing her major to joe, she’s changing her major to SEX with joe
Straight lesbian sex, or… lesbian straight sex?
Or Joyce just has a flawed concept of sexuality, that seems most likely.
Similar concept to when I was called a “lesbian with a penis” back right before the turn of the century. Because I was skilled in pleasuring women without using my penis.
Good on ya!
How did she get into college? Did they mean to accept somebody else?
Becky’s face in the last panel is killing me. hysterical
sdgkjsdhlsfkdhj AHAHAHHAH I DIED
I ACTUALLY CACKLED OUT LOUD. J o y c e n O.
Also oh Becky you don’t even know how right you are 😛
One for the all-time great DoA strips hall of fame here.
Also Joyce is mistagged as “Joe” on this page, so technically, until that gets fixed, Joe had lesbian sex with himself.
She had fun with someone she loves, and he had fun too. That’s all that counts. Not if she kept or lost her virginity, did they have fun and share their love.
Joyce, yer a wizard.
I mean, lizard. I mean, lesbian.
Joe, too. You should tell him.
Well, hey, I’m sure that’s on his bucket list somewhere, Joyce!
genuine LOL IRL at final panel
“I HAD LESBIAN SEX WITH JOE!” is something I NEED to work into a conversation somehow
Don’t tell the whole world that, Joyce.
Joyce I don’t think that particular girlfriend pre-order is gonna happen.
Let a girl dream 😛
All sex is lesbian sex if you want it to be
Technically the strict definition of “sexual intercourse” requires penetration, and the strict definition of virgin is “hasn’t had sexual intercourse” – if Joe didn’t put his finger inside Joyce, she’s still a virgin.
Based on the secret naughty patreon video of the event I would surmise there was penetration, but you should probably make your own determination.
Actually, the gif on the other patreon looks like it could have just as easily been rubbing instead of insertion
Yeah. Apparently the U.S. criminal code (18 U.S.C.) considers hand-stuff a “sex act” when applied to orifices but not to protuberances. So under federal law, what Joyce first did for Joe was not “sex”, but what Joe did later for Joyce was “sex”.
Seems a bit arbitrary if ya ask me. Kinda sexist, too. Like a lot of things about that particular set of laws. (Actually, that *particular* set of laws was primarily and explicitly used for the purpose of racism, but sexism was a big part of it too.)
…Yeah. You know you’re a pedant when you turn to legal code sections to try to understand what sex is…
Citing the U.S. criminal code, despite being a frequent occurrence on this site, is typically not going to give a result that applies to normal human interactions.
True that!
*Facepalm*
But what about the penile code?
(/pun on “penal”)
The US Penile code says that unless you got your P in the V (or vice versa), or as the kids say these days, your D in the P (or vice versa), then you’re still a virgin.
I wasn’t wrong.
Joyce, honey, no that’s not, sweetie no.
But hey Becky’s happy so
“She a little confused, but she’s got the spirit.”
At least I think.
It sure is really inconvenient that Dorothy is having a crisis right now. Because this is something Joyce would definitely need to talk to her about. Other bestie would clear the nonsense.
I mean, I guess she could attempt to talk to Sarah but…
She should totally run over to get advice from Ruth. I’ll make popcorn for the readers.
This might be the single greatest epiphany moment in the comics xD
all time punchline for real
also i keep reading the first part of becky’s first line as “DINA, YOU UP FINGERING?”
….what
No, Joyce! No, Becky! Leave it to Dina to be the one offering actual wisdom here.
Depending on where this goes, this could actually be quite wholesome? That’s not the word I’m looking for exactly, but: Joyce built up sex in her head to this defining moment. Good or Bad, it was this Big Event that needed ceremony and announcement and fanfare. And then she had sex with Joe, admittedly a different type of sex than she was imagining, but sex. And she woke up, she and Joe still had cute snuggle times, she has existed in the world feeling normal and comfortable with her decision, she hasn’t been smote, nothing terrible has happened, she hasn’t felt on display or ashamed in the aftermath. She and Joe just did A Fun Thing, and she carried on as basically normal.
It turns out that The Fun Thing was sex, and all of the above is still true. Nothings ruined, she isn’t changed forever, she hasn’t reevaluated her entire being. I kinda hope, even if I don’t really have high hopes that it will be this easy, that this let’s Joyce demystify sex a bit.
You’re 100% spot on imo
What
*plays “Sanctuary Guardians” from EarthBound on hacked muzak*
Strips remaining until Joyce concludes that she actually “had sex” with Dorothy in the laundry room: …1?
I’m gonna go for… 12. Seems like we have some time before that
So, when is Joyce going to realize that holding someone’s hand while you both cum counts as sex and that Dorothy was actually the first person she fucked?
Pretty sure that’d be group masturbation, if the parties involved didn’t provide stimulation to each other. Joyce kicked Dotty out of the room to finish doing her laundry, though.
Well called Sajuuk-Khar!
Ya know, Quasimodo predicted all this
I appreciate Dina still giving lipservice to Becky’s definition of Virginity despite not herself believing in it. Insomuch that as a virgin, I often find there’s space between the idea of “Virginity is a harmful concept” and “Virginity is a useful description”.
Virginity may be a harmful social construct but it is a social construct.
Like it exists as a concept even if you disagree with it.
I don’t think that Joyce can have a single thought in her head without it going up the rails somewhere.
I was not expecting “fingering with Joe” to be a step of the stairs, towards a Dorothy/Joyce lesbian realtionship.
but here we are…. lol
😛
One day Joe and Amber will be able to bond as siblings over having been their first crush’s gay awakening.
Welp, we knew this was coming ^^u
I think her true loss of virginity is her appearing in Becky’s room with no sweater vest. All else is secondary.
Kudos to everyone who predicted the punchline.
I can’t think of a counter argument so i guess Joyce is right
Dorothy, there:s still a way you can salvage this:
Soot hit report by mistake. Sorry. Was trying to use my fat fingers on my phone to click the other link
1 – Don’t worry, it takes like 5 reports to take a comment off.
2 – Really? I really did put an ‘H’ in the middle of URL? Shit.
The real link is thus: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/04-hompk/salvage/
I mean… Sure, why not?
Everyone predict who she’s going to tell the news to first.
I predict she will tell Walky and Dorothy first!
This is further evidence towards me thesis that Becky would not necessarily be crushed to discover that Joyce did, indeed, Have the Gay, Just Too Late, but, rather, would simply use it as validation that she was right all along.
So that’s what Scott Pilgrim meant when he said he was in Lesbians with Ramona….
Oh Becky doesnt even realize how on the nose that was huh
Crosses fingers. Joe Transition Arc. Joe Transition Arc. Joe Transition Arc.
With Lesbian Joe and Good Egg Danny, Walky finally has some competition in the 300m transition dash
… in retrospect. Seeing as how Joe is basically tied with Becky for how often he talks about how hot chicks are. I *really* should have realized he was a lesbian before this.
College friend of mine used to say he was a butch dyke trapped in a man’s body.
It will be very funny if Becky is more supportive of lesbian Joe than Dorothy and Joyce being gay for each other
Also on this talk of virginity, I wanna talk about how I learned the word virgin, because my grandma is a fundie like Joyce’s family. She’d taken me to church, they’d talked a lot that day about the Virgin Mary, so I asked her. “What’s a virgin?”. She explained it means someone who hasn’t had sex. I was like, 12, and excited at the idea of sharing something with Mary so I proudly told her “Oh, I’m a virgin too” and my grandma shut me down with “Sure, but Mary is the ONE TRUE virgin”.
Also, the idea fundies have that Mary never had sex with her husband after birthing Jesus is so funny. Like sorry Joseph. You get to raise a son you didn’t conceive and you don’t get to have any kids of your own. Get fucked, as decreed by God himself.
Catholics hold to that doctrine as well. It’s particularly odd since the New Testament talks about Jesus’s brothers and sisters.
According to my Orthodox brother, those were Joseph’s children from a previous marriage.
I could’ve sworn that one of the disciples was Jesus’ brother, but aside from that I gave him bombastic side eye at the idea that Joseph and Mary did nothing the entire rest of their marriage.
James the Just was Jesus’ brother. Though if you really don’t want Mary to ever have had sex, for Reasons, you can use the fact that there’s no separate Aramaic or Greek word for “cousin,” allowing you to justify James the Just (and all Jesus’ other siblings) were as his cousins, listed as siblings.
Kevin Smith pointed out this element.
I just can’t believe one of main division between Catholics and Protestants exists, because a buch of people took the “hey, hey, this is my bro James, yo?” so much serious from Jesus
Lots of Protestant denominations also aren’t really fond of actual full brothers of Jesus. Plenty of ways around it – including that they’re Joseph’s kids from a previous marriage. Which probably ties to the tradition that Joseph was an old man when he married virgin Mary – which might make the not ever having sex part more believable.
None of this – beyond the conception being without her having sex – is in the Bible itself of course. And even that only in two Gospels.
I feel like once you get into Mary being immaculately conceived and therefore born free of original sin, you don’t want to then have her get into humanity’s sinful nature or whatever later. Also, with the immaculate conception, was God like a donor so he sort of fathered Mary like he did Jesus? Or was it like godly IVF with her human parents?
If you read the original texts, Mary sprang from God’s forehead fully-grown. Joseph was just the nearest guy around, so he kinda got saddled with her.
I mean, making Jesus to be his stepson is a weird thing to call out as bizarre.
The stepson part isn’t bizarre but the expectation for Mary to never ever ever ever have sex is bizarre. What about Mary’s needs? Desires? She can’t have those, she birthed the Savior! She is forever and always now a sexless amoeba who’s only job was spitting out One Child and she didn’t even get to have the Big O to make that child. She gets to hold her dead son and that’s all she ever gets to do now.
She was born without sin, so she would have had no sexual desire anyway, right?
The churches I went to never said anything about Mary being born without sin but as an asexual myself I wouldn’t be opposed to an ace Mary.
The doctrine of Immaculate Conception is big in Catholicism, but not so much in some of the other branches of Christianity.
It’s dogshit writing, honestly.
Well… if Joe’s going to be a Male Lesbian, he should look the part.
Get that man some fantastic! makeup! And other things an Executive Transvestite might require!
Well that’s a bit presumptuous. We don’t all even bother with makeup.
This is the first genuine laugh this comic’s gotten out of me in a while. Love how we can always count on Joyce’s intractability to lead her to the most incoherent conclusions.
I’m sad that somebody spoiked the punchline yesterday. I hate that Willis sells access to ”one day in advance”, as that will inevitably lead to such.
There’s always going to be a chance someone says tomorrow’s punchline, though, even if that someone doesn’t have Patreon access. If that makes you enjoy it less when it happens, you might consider a different angle of looking at it, like “Wow, this person predicted it”, rather than “This person ruined my enjoyment”.
That person did not have a Patreon membership. Sometimes people just accidentally make the same joke I’m gonna make.
(To wit, even on Patreon’s comments on the previous strip, before today’s strip was seen by anybody, some folks made that connection on their own.)
Wow, impressive then.
I don’t think that person needed exclusive access to see where the comic was going with “Joyce and Joe did the same sexual act as Becky and Dina”
This continues to be a rough couple of weeks for team Joyce is straight and the Maple Leafs are going to with the cup.
*win the cup
Butch dyke tgirl joe… and she would still be just as jacked… basically as tall… she can cook…. 6’2″ 400 lb butch d uyke tgi errl houswoife joe….
Willis, you can turn me around on this ship yet!
do u need medical attention to recover from tall beefy tgirl thoughts
I think i hauve covid
OH NO!!!! T^T
get fluid and bedrest, and order anti-covid meds right away!
Omg, *and* she’s list bro?? She has that deep stain of misogyny and objectification in her history? One which she thought she had grappled with, that she thought she had made up for, but now she’s on the other side. And she really, truly, genuinely has to experience what it was like for the women on her list? It’s not just a hypothetical other anymore, it’s *her*, and all of her sisters, it was always about *her* and women like *her*. And maybe the whole rating thing wasn’t just about attraction, but about her repressed desires, her need, the one she never listened to but always knew?
But the impulse still lives inside her. She still thinks, instinctively, unbidden, who she’d give a 5 for her flat tits, or a 10 for her angry, domineering air. She can’t stop the thoughts, can’t push them away. Can’t stop being the predator she always was. As a man ranking every woman she met and treating them as sex objects. As a trans girl sneaking her way into women’s spaces and tricking her partner into a lesbian relationship she had already turned down twice. Or as a dyke, and a butch, and all the inherent predation of being a woman outside patriarchial norms….
God the drama of it all! The anxiety and fear behind every moment of this tall beefy tgirl dyke! Ahhhhhhh!!
Well, then.
Eh. I’ve read worse fan fiction.
Thank you for this I absolutely died laughing.
Wait til Becky explains “mutual masturbation”.
Oh, and her father. Leah’s dad already represented already represented the worst sins of man to her. Was already the archetype of what she was going to turn into, with time. A man who continually hurt the women in his life, for his lust, a lust which she shares. He is the masculinity she is running away from, the thing she’s always running away from, and she never feels like she’s far enough.
What does he say when she comes out? Does he make an off color joke in the wrong moment? Does he immediately sexualize his daughter, the way he immediately sexualized Amber? Does their relationship ever really recover from that, the way it’s never really recovered from the divorce? Does Leah ever forgive him? Or is he always, always, the thing she’s running away from? Her 6’4″, 400lb, mountain of a father, who she resembles so much and wants to be so little?
How did I reply to this one???? Sorry, didn’t mean to continue this AU on your post :3
have i mentioned that i love this comic?
I really wish Jocelyne was here to hear that last comment.
I hope Dina pops on over just to give Joyce a legit sex talk. Which I think Dina would have extensive knowledge of sex now just to spite everyone. Or that’s what I like to believe anyways lol
…Dina probably does have extensive knowledge of sex now. She has sex with Becky pretty regularly. It’s not the sort of thing she’d start doing without research.
Sorry didn’t mean to report your comment 😅 bit that is what I’m saying!
Oh sweet. I got the Dina pfp. Life is good
Congratulations.
no you didn’t joyce -.-
If the lady says she had lesbian sex with her boyfriend, she damn well had lesbian sex with her boyfriend.
no lesbian sex is between women. if a boring man was involved it categorically is not lesbian sex
Yesterday everyone agreed that Joyce gets to define her own sexual experiences. TODAY YOU REAP WHAT YOU (actually probably other people) HAVE SOWN.
“You reap what other people have sown” is a lot less profound of a proclamation, but a lot more accurate.
I live to be accurate and unprofound, so this is perfect.
ah yes, a fellow mathematician
Just because way too many men are neglecting fingers and tongues or consider them foreplay, doesn’t make it less straight (or bi, of course) to have sex as a woman with a man.
Penetrative-only isn’t more straight, it’s just less imaginative.
I dunno why so many guys get hung up on that shit. I get some people just aren’t into certain textures/feelings but my god fingering and oral legit feels EXTREMELY good for me to give. It is absolutely sex, and I 100% agree with Dina that virginity as an extremely harmful construct. Kissing feels good because we like rubbing our soft parts together. It’s not rocket science.
If you have directly given or received sexual pleasure to someone, there is no point in calling yourself a virgin anymore.
No, but for real though. Cunnilingus is fun as hell, repeatable as long as the recipient wants more, and guys who could be doing it, but won’t, are pussies.
thats what makes it more straight, the lack of imagination. straight sex by definition is less good than queer sex
I can’t tell if this will successfully distract her from the Dorothy thing or just draw her mind back to it.
The Dorothy thing is what’s leading to this line of reasoning in the first place. I’d say it’s just being reinforced.
Joyce is about to hit Becky with an absolutely devastating “Joe Mama” in the next strip, I am sure of this.
Somewhere in the mists where time no longer reaches… Mike speaks.
From beyond the barrier, there is something he wants you to know.
Hahaha, people called her deciding Becky’s point would lead to Joyce concluding she had lesbian sex with Joe. Looks like they were right.
Also of course Dina would be able to call out Virginity for what it is
I thought this was going to be about musical instruments somehow
Ha. Called it.
Joyce engaging in the time honored bisexual girl tradition of pretending her cishet relationship is somehow queer instead of just being in a queer relationship
Hey look at that, Joyce! You were right all along — you didn’t lose your virginity last night!
Oh oops wrong day