I’m concerned this is leading into her trying to seduce Joe just to prove her point, which is a recipe for disaster if that’s happening at the same time Joyce x Dorothy is boiling over.
I imagine it’s not about Joe. Rachel has to have spent more time today in the same room with Joe than all their previous encounters combined. Now she’s going to want to keep talking about how he hasn’t changed when this is the only version of Joe she has actually seen somewhat up close; to me that would suggest her interest isn’t Joe but being right about her simplistic little personal philosophy.
I mean, I imagine she was hanging around to exercise mostly, since that’s what she came down to do. There’s no doubt she is continuing to engage as well, but I doubt that’s why she’s sticking around rn.
The problem is the shipping urge is too intense. Joe and Sarah need to have a whirlwind romance… before parting on decent terms so the Rachel arc can begin.
The end game should be Joe and his Dorothy/Joyce/Walky harem.
I realise this is kind of hypocritical from someone whose dislike of Roz stems about 60-70% from something she did in Shortpacked! (but nothing this Roz has said or done convinces me she wouldn’t have done it too), but I’m not sure that what Walkyverse characters did is a guarantee of anything.
People can change, but they don’t change across a set route that will always be the same regardless of other factors.
Well, no, it’s not about “Rachel is gonna be into Joe,” and honestly I’d prefer avoiding that. It’s more that everybody is still the same core person, just in a different scenario. Someone who is capable of becoming more open-minded in Walkyverse is likely still going to be capable of it in Dumbingverse. (That said, if Rachel suffers a traumatic experience or two, that can change things rather immensely.)
Honestly, I think the opposite. Rachel is paying attention, and while she pokes, it’s with far less vitriol. She ain’t there, but she is dealing with the challenge to her worldview
She’s just waiting for the other shoe to drop. She “knows” Joe is going to be unable to resist horndogging out, and she wants to be there to see it when it happens, so she can tell herself (and Joe) “There it is. that’s what I was expecting.”
I suppose it’s because the people I find the most interesting are the characters that I like, or relate to. However you are right that I was not talking about the same thing as the original comment; my apologies.
That’s exactly WHY Mary’s more entertaining. Rachel’s a hardened super-cynic, you get nothing out of interactions with them. Everyone hates Mary, but at least she’s *fun* to hate!
Mary can be more entertaining as a villain, especially in her big arc with Carla and Ruth.
I’m more interested in Rachel – there are enough hints that there’s something behind her attitude that I’d like to know what it is.
No, Mary needs to give in to everything she’s ignored about herself and get with Carla. Then get pregnant. Then be abandoned by Carla because that’s “The ultimate prank.” Then she ends up with Jacob so it all works out.
Rachel made some awful comments about an recently suicidal abusive authority figure. Mary attempted to blackmail that same person for her own bigoted purposes. They’re not at all the same.
Even from the perspective of “a villainous character I enjoy hating” Mary hasn’t been entertaining since she got punched. She’s too much of a loser to take seriously as a villain but too much of a villain to laugh at her for being a loser so she’s just kind of vaguely unpleasant for no reason.
Rachel is a nothing character but that’s because we almost never see her, and when she says something mean she’s usually prompting another character to reflect on their character arc. Rachel is being mean so that Joe can have Deep Thoughts in response. She’s a Greek chorus commenting on the plot/themes pretending to be a character. And I get why people don’t like her but there’s a reason for her to be in this comic and she gets like three lines a year so she’s not worth getting mad about.
I mean, my knee-jerk response to that would be “no, not really” but then I remembered how much I adore the lovable assholes that comprise the cast of Sword Art Online Abridged… Not to mention, as per your Castlevania avatar (one that serves as clear evidence of great taste), I’m tempted to argue that Treffy and Sypha kinda had that dynamic for a bit, at least in the beginning.
While I admit my affection for the show may just nostalgia as I watched it as a teenager and I found the fourth season and end of the second not very strong, I still deeply recommend the show. For a show for young adults I think it touches some strong themes and I deeply enjoy the characters and their very real development. It is also, I believe, the best representation of the Justice League. Not necessarily for character (they aren’t the focus of the show), but unlike many DC projects the world feels interconnected and believable. Rather than feeling like just 20 different heroes’ settings and rogue galleries mashed together with all the disjoint and power scaling problems that entails – the setting feels built from the ground up. To me it really seems like a world were Superman and the Flash would teem up with Batman, because they aren’t so powerful that he would not be a vital asset. It feels like a place where Lex Luther and the Joker would be willing and able to partner not simply because its a story that happens to have both Batman and Superman and they need somebody to fight, but because Metropolis and Gotham are two cities in the same nation connected by culture and friend groups and trade. The villains aren’t a slapped together group of weirdos that teamed up in a swamp just so they can beat up their rival heroes’ new friends, they are believable independent terrifying secret cabal with their own motivations the heroes are just in the way of it. I also love the show’s strong current of James Bond / Ocean’s 11 style spy thriller themes. Its more than just punching the villain of the week in the face till he stops his evil plans, its a continuous murky shadow war waged by the Justice League using their protege. It feels like the missions matter, not just because you don’t want Catwoman to get away with all those diamonds, but because the audience is aware that those diamonds are probably going to help fund the Madhatter’s mind control research so, he can help Vandal Savage destabilize Atlantis for Black Manta so he can hijack a nuclear sub or whatever. Its all connected and important. Its not crime-fighting its a war. A war waged by a fantastic cast of often delightfully dysfunctional teenage superheroes. Its great.
Are we doing Rachel/Joe? Is that where this has always been going? I confess I had my doubts, but the Do List storyline did give me an inkling…
I will always be a member of the Joe/Joyce diehards, but honestly I just want good things for Joe. At this point I will accept a 10 Things I Hate About You consolation prize.
Also Sarah continues to be an absolute delight, and I’m so glad this “season 2” running has given her more attention and development. Love seeing her come out of her shell!
Joe’s not gonna cheat on Joyce, Joyce is either gonna cheat on him outright or she’s gonna leave him for Dorothy. There’s no satisfying other way the Joyce/Joe/Dorothy/Walky conundrum can end, story-wise. Half the potential polycule hates the other half, half has the communication skills of a potato, and half has the self-esteem of a slightly more rotten potato. Joyce has her thing with Dorothy that’s the focus now, and it would be really weird to do all this build up around it just to turn it into a Shaggy Dog plotline. It sucks because I loved Joe/Joyce.
Personally, I’m holding out for Joe/Sarah now. He’s tall and athletic, she’s a good person still learning to be better than she was, it could work in a way. Him and Rachel would be fun in a destructive/self-destructive kind of way now though. Idk her enough to know if it could turn long term (only know a bit of her from the old comic)
(I point out Joe’s appearance because Sarah’s focus on dudes being tall is a potential point of contention between her and Tony, and really their “I was a jerk and am getting better” is a thing both of them share. Am tired and worded all of it poorly.)
I’ll say it over and over again: every node of a polycule does not need to date or even like every other person involved. I have had partners with partners who I couldn’t stand, but it’s not my job to police who they date so I just don’t hang around that particular person. It’s not difficult.
I am definitely on board for Sarah/Joe or Rachel/Joe if the polycule-that-was-foretold doesn’t happen and Joyce breaks up with him. Particularly if Tony (who I don’t trust in the slightest) proves me right and is a snake in some way. Potentially leaving Sarah and Joe distraught at the same time.
I know this too, because I was raised by a polycule and it absolutely sucked around the time they all started hating each other lol. I just do not believe the relationship can be healthy once it’s gotten to that point.
Like, Dorothy is a control freak. It is her main character flaw, it’s why she refuses to properly do therapy, it’s why she struggles so much with her PTSD. She would absolutely try to monopolize Joyce’s time in the polycule and undermine Joe. They aren’t even dating and she has done this several times. Joyce would likewise do the same to Walky though more aggressively (if less insidiously.) Joe doesn’t believe he deserves good things and may not actually like the idea of the polycule outside of his frat bro persona he’s abandoned. He will swallow his resentment and emotions just to make Joyce happy, which is a recipe for disaster in any relationship. Walky is basically in the same boat but in significant bigger risk of crashing out simply because he endures a lot of BS and he used to love Dorothy more than himself, so he could take Dorothy trying to fix him. I do not believe he would tolerate Joyce actively meddling in their relationship, especially not to the same extent Joe has already had to deal with. Dorothy and Walky SUCK at communicating with each other and with the other members of this polycule. Joyce is also evidently terrible at communication, but Joe is really good at it when he’s not self-loathing.
Like, any individual issue of that is enough to sink a monoamorous relationship, it’s part of what creates the stakes for Dorothy/Walky, Joe/Joyce, and Joyce/Dorothy. But adding ALL of them together irl just creates a miserable and toxic group of people who constantly hurt each other and everyone around them.
Like, this isn’t a knock against poly relationships. I think Dorothy/Walky/Amber/Amazigirl could work well and the polycule in the strip seem super cute and happy from what little we’ve seen. But these are all roughly in the same friend group and generally like to spend time together, Dorothy/Joyce/Joe/Walky would just compound all the worst parts of a relationship x4 because literally nobody gets what they actually want except for Joyce and *maybe* Dorothy (I honestly don’t think Dorothy *wants* to share Joyce with Joe period. I kind of question if she even actually wants Walky at this point or if she just wants the way he made her feel.)
Amber/Walky/Amazigirl/Dorothy would work because these characters kind of give each other space and tend to not enable each other’s worst tendencies, which is HILARIOUS because Garbage Skow kind of existed with intent to enable (but iirc it really seemed more like a means to cope than anything. It has been a hot minute though, I may very well be forgetting its worse aspects.) Amazigirl and Dorothy have a Superman/Lois Lane vibe too. Amber will be grateful for Walky giving her alone time to spend time with Dorothy, Amazigirl can help Dorothy deal with some trauma and encourage her to get help (which isn’t the point of a relationship, but Dorothy needs someone who can be real with her and Joyce and Walky just can’t. She’s on a pedestal, even if it’s cracked for the latter.) Amber and Dorothy would never have to hang out because they hang in different circles, but even if they did then Amber could probably help Dorothy with her grades and burn out pretty well, even accidentally. Walky and Amazigirl are in the NotBat Family, so that’s their dynamic. Dorothy can join the NotBat Family too lol.
Like, idk. I feel like I ramble and complain a lot because I do, but I would just really rather see that than Dorothy and Joyce trying to make their thing work at all. I really do think they play into each other’s worst aspects way too often and that Dorothy does lean on fixing people way too much. She could try to “fix” Amazigirl, but Amazigirl has the backbone to shut that down, and I think Dorothy needs more people in her life who can do that without immediately also going “You wanted to be presiden in abstract, therefore you are literally the biggest scumbag I’ve ever met.”
I mean, I don’t think it’s very narratively satisfying to spend years building up to Joe and Joyce dating just to immediately break them up so I doubt that’s happening either
Oh don’t get me wrong, it would be immensely aggravating and unsatisfying for me too, but they’ve at least like had some storylines together as a couple and it’s more development for Joe having to deal with literally his worst nightmare happening and whether he can continue to improve in spite of it. I can see the bigger appeal of that storyline over “Joyce and Dorothy just stay friends and Dorothy continues to be the exact same spiral she was before this massive drama dangling over our heads.”
I feel like there are a good chunk of DOA interactions that exist to prove if certain ships from the original Walkyverse could still exist in DOA. We know Joyce and Walky went absolutely nowhere but i still don’t believe them as a couple again is outright impossible… But very very much something that would probably only come to fruition in the very far future.
I think Joe and Sarah here vs there is a good example of what i mean, in roomies the two got together because boy central cast member and girl central cast member which is how a lot of the main ships worked back then. So much of DoA feels like it’s reexamining those relationships but with the characters being more realistic. Sarah fucking hated Joe up until pretty much this chapter but Rachel isn’t too far off from how she was in IW! with her immediately viewing Joe as an annoying sex pest foremost and secretly a kind gentle sensitive sweetheart last.
The twist this time is RACHEL has to put in the effort. She has to get off her high horse and stop judging folks from a distance. Outside of hints at being attracted to him and acting like a third grader about it she has no real desire TO change or at least change how she views people.
I think Rachel/Joe is still a valid ship especially if things DO go south with Joyce which they could at any time or moment. It could give us time to finally unpack her whole deal with Ruth and what happened during her first semester.
My personal conspiracy theory is that our fearless leader, I mean author, intentionally makes sure that the canon pairings from other comics are completely untenable in this one. For the sole purpose of messing with us, especially the long time fans. Exempli gratia; Joyce and Walky got together in another universe, so in this one, they can’t stand each other. See also Mike and Amber, Leslie and Robin, and as I suspect, Rachel and Joe.
Is it possible for two people of compatable genders to start out hating each other, then … just be friends? I feel like that’s something that’s possible.
And if it’s not, then Joe needs to end up with Rachel and Sarah.
Basic understanding would seem to be “people who’s genders are compatible to each other’s sexual orientations.” Like a straight guy and a straight girl, in this case (presumably). At least, that’s what seems like the obvious meaning to me.
Honestly, the funnies scenario would be Rachel throws herself at him, half in a insistence to prove her own point about him and half because of perverse sexual lust, and he’s just like “Ew, No.” and that’s the end of it.
yeah probably, since htey are on friendly terms as opposed to joe being similar to dina and not having the social energy to give a smile with a greeting/farewell
imagine how much her brain would explode if she knew that she and joe were married with carla as their daughter in Shortpacked! (and i assume its walky, didn’t read that one)
Granted his list was beyond awful, but does Joe actually have a reputation for bothering anyone after they say no? He’s always been quick to back off. And he and Sarah have been frienemies (for lack of a better word) for a while. I get that Rachel despises him but she’s making stuff up at this point, and I don’t respect that.
like I’m not saying Joe hasn’t massively improved on pretty much every level, I’m not saying he should be harangued about this forever, but: yes, he definitely made both Sarah and Rachel say no more than once…
Yeah actually you kinda had to scream NO in his face for him to get it, like Sarah and Rachel did. Otherwise he’d do the whole “she’s just playing hard to get” or “I don’t back down from a challenge” type thing. Even if joe wasn’t intended to be that bad, remember the public idea of what consent is was pretty bad until like, within the last ten years? I don’t really feel like going into it so just watch this really well made video about rape culture by a very smart lady. This comic started in 2010 and a lot of the consent violating things Joe said and did were just part of normal tv dudebro lady’s man cultrue.
I’ve said it before, but one of the most frustrating things about old Joe for me is that we never really got a look at how he worked. We saw him mostly back off when he got told forcefully to do so – like Sarah and Rachel (Mostly, since he’d come back and comment again). We saw that he did hook up with Roz and Penny, but not how that started and they were both likely to initiate it themselves (as Malaya did later).
We never saw him successfully approach anyone. We never saw him deal with anyone who wasn’t interested and maybe even uncomfortable, but not willing to be as forceful about as Sarah and Rachel were.
This lets people invent their own Joe, painting him better or worse than he actually was.
It might be interesting to have him run into one of his previous conquests, who might not be entirely pleased with the experience.
Really hope Rachel realizes that people actually can change for the better someday. Joe seems to be pretty good evidence of that, if she’s willing to believe it.
even if she’s willing to ‘accept’ joe as he is i wouldn’t be surprised if ruth aside, she had some parental/relatives issues that’d make it harder since it’s something you might have to live with as opposed to her being full no contact with those ppl she thinks can’t change after graduating
Rachel’s argument isn’t that Joe specifically can’t change, she doesn’t believe that character growth is conceptually possible for anyone in any circumstance.
And I was going to make a joke about how too bad she can’t change into an interesting character do ho ho ho, but that made me realize how much this comic would benefit from Statler and Waldorf following people around. Every comic would, of course, but especially this one because there are a lot of characters already who kind of greek chorus like that.
Carla so badly wants to be that kind of person but she doesn’t have the sauce to be a hate but…hear me out here: Pair her up with Becky and have them follow Mary and/or Rachel around in a hot air balloon tossing insults and popcorn.
I can’t remember if they’ve even interacted yet… but might I offer a variation on that premise? Booster and Becky? I’m almost definitely biased because I adore them, and would love to see how their banter would bounce off each other.
This is a good point! I feel like Booster is interesting to imagine with Becky because of Booster’s psychoanalysis trait. Becky wears a lot on her sleeve, so maybe harder for Booster to get under her skin. On the other hand, Booster is maybe the personification of the thing Becky’s currently most scared of.
Have we watched Dina and Booster talk? She’s perhaps the most likely to be immune to Booster’s dubious superpower. And possibly crush them for a week with something insightful. I know she’s had her adventures with Charlie, don’t recall her Booster interactions.
I just realized that it’s dubious who she thought was going to attempt to seduce here. Rachel’s last interaction with Sarah was when she was going around in the halls literally asking people to seduce someone for her. I know on-screen Sarah didn’t tell her what she was doing, but likely she caught wind early.
I absolutely want to see Carla in a hot air balloon, wearing top hat and tux with tails. I don’t care if it’s Around the World in 80 Days or Wizard of Oz, I think either would be fantastic.
I still think that this sort of bluster is reserved for people who’ve seriously wronged her and isn’t the universally applied belief that the comments section seems to think it is.
Ruth is an alcoholic who we’ve seen force herself on someone, so it’s not a stretch to think about what might’ve happened there, and Joe labelling her the hottest girl on campus with more or less directions to where she lives at a time when there was a rapist on campus could easily have dredged feelings about that back up. She’s justified in holding a grudge for a few months.
Rachel’s issue with Ruth was fueled by their backstreet as well as Ruth abusing her power as RA. While the alcoholism could be part of their backstreet (though I doubt it bc if Rachel had dirt Ruth was underage drinking surely she’d squeal to be rid of her) I don’t think she hit on Rachel. Ruth’s attraction to Billie is treated as if it’s her bi awakening. Also if Ruth tried to hit on her and it went sour I’d think Rachel would refuse to be in the same residence hall as her. And surely it would have come up when… you know, Ruth was found out to actually be sleeping with one of her charges.
At the very least, people seem to be treating it as a philosophical belief she arrived at through abstract reasoning, rather than a lessons learned through trauma kind of thing.
And both Ruth’s abusive, bullying behavior and Joe’s creepy near-predatory behavior are both things that people often performatively apologize for when it’s called out, but then go on to repeat.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that Rachel is actually 100% correct and the reason people dislike her is that they can’t handle the truth. Does anyone seriously think we’re getting a Mary redemption arc, or, like, Incelerator learns to respect women? No, of course, it’s ludicrous. Every single villain in Dumbing of Age is 100% irredeemably evil, and Rachel is entirely correct to note this. Her only error is putting Joe in the “evil” category and not the “good person from the jump who was rude once” category with Ruth.
Wonder if we’ll see a run in of someone from rachels past that calls her out if not ppl pointing out her hypocrisy like “that means you’ll never change and get better than your worst moment”
I mean, “by having physically left the weight room and continuing to engage him in conversation despite having made your desire to never speak to him again clear.”
Why does Joe hang out with Rachel when all she does is make mildly pretentious chorus remarks about her philosophical objections to his character arc that clearly annoy him? I guess as a comic character he’s metaphysically doomed to endless banter but everyone in this comic would be a lot happier if they learned to treat the toxic villains in their life with a pre-emptive “fuck off”.
Would you call this hanging out? He’s just not making an effort to leave the situation she created, and I think that’s fair since he was here before her and should get to continue his activity whether she likes it or not.
Willis said on Patreon that Rachel is an artificial human created immediately before Ruth’s first semester. Her lived experience is like one year, so far.
Well now I’m just imagining the whole bit from Men in Black, where the faces folded out to reveal a cockpit for a tiny little alien dude. Calling it now, “Rachel” is naught but a robotic vessel for an Arquillian dignitary.
Which is also to say she’s a character who almost never appears and when she does she’s just kind of blandly mean to characters we like more, so it’s not really surprising people don’t like her even though she’s literally never done anything.
I feel like she’s somewhat entitled to not trusting or liking Joe, but I don’t understand why she wants to talk to him so badly if the things she’s saying out loud are her true feelings. I’ve always avoided people like early-Joe like my life depended on it, and would especially so after the do-list (because let’s be honest, most bros like that in real life double down rather than reflect and mature.) I don’t hate her at all, but the scenes with these two are really uncomfortable and one-note, with her continuing to initiate them.
While we cannot know what happened to Rachel to make her this pessimistic, I can understand that something really rough must have happened to tarnish her opinion of humanity. I’ve been there before, maybe not on this consistent intensity to the point where I actually voice all the bitter little musings buzzing around my cerebellum… but bitterness and pessimism? I get it. I’ll try not to judge. Walk a mile in someone’s shoes and all that.
That said, I get a very big grin seeing Joe stand up for himself here. His transformation from promiscuous playboy to wholesome boyfriend material has been a delight. His old self used to give me the ick, seeing how hard he’s worked to move passed it turned him into one of my fave characters.
Love me a good, well-told, and deserved redemption arc.
I like both that A. Joe gets a little smile in panel 4, like he’s very much enjoying this little dynamic he and Sarah have lately, with a reached accord, and B. that he sasses Rachel in the final panel.
Joe has been shown to be pretty patient and understanding of people who have gripes with him in recent times, but he’s human, and perfectly capable of finding tedious behavior tedious.
I don’t actually hate Rachel or anything, and know we’ve seen she’s really not much fonder of Ruth or a big believer she could change, either, so if nothing else, she’s not singling him out entirely.
I’m now thinking Rachel spent months preparing all sorts of Joe insults and arguments to make him feel bad so his avoiding her has really irritated her. However, he’s also giving her no ammunition.
Maybe she believes he’s secretly the Incellerator.
If the comments section didn’t deliver a ton of unhinged remarks(you in particular after looking over this strip’s comments, wow), maybe there wouldn’t always be someone saying something like this.
Rachel starts to remind me of that one Watamote character who constantly keeps calling the protagonist a creep (not entirely unfounded) but is OBVIOUSLY a perv herself and wants in on that action.
I really like how Sarah’s philosophy is neatly packaged here in a more positive context. She and Joe are actually a lot alike, even though their choice of social repellent is different. It’s nice to see them hang out.
You now gave me this mental image of Joe and Sarah all ripped walking into that protest and wrecking whoever might be causing problems for Joyce and Dotty. Like that little segment from the Devil episode of Rick and Morty where Rick and Summer got ripped and started beating up assholes?
I’m mostly a little confused by Rachel at points. Like if people never change why hang around them?
I do have some sympathy for people embittered by the idea people can’t, especially as wider society can often weaponise the idea of forgiveness (at least as it pertains to people in power who commit wrongdoing as it usually is), but why are you interacting girl?
Granted she isn’t much in the comic so maybe she generally doesn’t but it has ‘someone is wrong on the internet’ kind of energy I guess.
I have a prediction, Rachel will try to seduce Joe to prove she’s right about people not changing. Whether it will work or not is up to where Willis wants the story to go.
Calling Joe spirals after he catches Dotty and Joyce and he eventually winds up banging Rachel because what’s the point in trying when even JOYCE cheats?
sarah is sweaty
joe has been helping sarah and not doing his own thing so he’s not sweaty
but the implication of rachel being normal must be that rachel has been just sort of standing there watching them the the entire time or perhaps using an exercise bike at walking speed
Pre-conceived notions are hard to get out of.
But I think it’s important to note that it’s only been about… what, 4 months since Joe made the List?
I can buy he could change significantly during that time… but also buy a lot of people staying the same too. Rachel hasn’t seen much of his development other than his apology tour, which she rightfully called out, and now… this.
Part of the point of Rachel, I suspect, is that not everyone will believe you when you try to change and certainly not everyone will forgive you for the shit you used to do. We kind of saw a bit of that aimed at Joe from Dorothy and from Sarah, but Dorothy’s motives were complicated by her own feelings for Joyce and both of them were close enough to Joyce that they needed to come around or just make things awkward for ever.
So Rachel gets that role. Which is undercut by her being obviously shitty and overly obsessed about the “never change” thing, rather than justifiably untrusting of Joe’s complete reversal.
You know what I’m gonna ignore. Gestures in a circle. And say once again good for Sarah. She did something hard and followed through on it, sought out help from someone she knows, and got a lot out of it. We are seeing growth.
Loading ...
wow, it’s almost like people can surprise you
No don’t you remember what Rachel said; people never change./s
prediction: this is the beginning of Rachel being into Joe.
I’m concerned this is leading into her trying to seduce Joe just to prove her point, which is a recipe for disaster if that’s happening at the same time Joyce x Dorothy is boiling over.
I was thinking the same thing; now that Joe is no longer interested in her, Racheal is going to want to get on the Joe-ride, in a bad way.
Gross
im suirprised she didn’t assume it was just him putting on a show b/c she was in the room
There’s still time.
I imagine it’s not about Joe. Rachel has to have spent more time today in the same room with Joe than all their previous encounters combined. Now she’s going to want to keep talking about how he hasn’t changed when this is the only version of Joe she has actually seen somewhat up close; to me that would suggest her interest isn’t Joe but being right about her simplistic little personal philosophy.
I also don’t think she’s keep talking to him if that was all of it. She’s hanging around to engage with him.
I mean, I imagine she was hanging around to exercise mostly, since that’s what she came down to do. There’s no doubt she is continuing to engage as well, but I doubt that’s why she’s sticking around rn.
Good on you Joe. You can give people time to adjust as you improve as a person, but you don’t need to accept their endless abuse.
Ow, the burn.
Good, she’s had it coming for a while and will continue to have it coming for as long as she’s being a brat.
honestly i’m surrpised she’s still engaging with joe even if it’s to get a jab in versus just leaving
Well done.
Joe’s silhouette has grown much more defined. It’s incredible just how much shade he’s casting.
Har.
I’m happy for Joe and Sarah. This is the start of a nice friendship.
She is going to want to murder him the moment the DOMS starts to hit
And then do so after it recedes
(72 hours remain)
I’m glad that Joe was able to help Sarah without making her uncomfortable; except for the incoming muscle pains.
If Joe and Sarah can be friends then almost anything is possible.
The problem is the shipping urge is too intense. Joe and Sarah need to have a whirlwind romance… before parting on decent terms so the Rachel arc can begin.
The end game should be Joe and his Dorothy/Joyce/Walky harem.
They’ve had their moments before, but yeah, they’ve found a pretty comfortable dynamic.
Improved Joe and Cheerful Sarah are getting useful practice at being better people. Win-win.
oh, you mean like this Rachel? 9-9
Joe isn’t living down to your expectations, Rachel? How sad.
I suspect Rachel will learn nothing from this
I suspect you’re absolutely right.
I suspect Rachel has a harder lesson coming.
New patreon strip coming in 5…
I’m not sure what this means.
The hard lesson is Joe’s erect Phallus. Coming. Hence the need for it to be behind the paywall.
one already came, and it’s about Asma
because apparently SOME PEOPLE just couldn’t get why Asma couldn’t afford to take any risks at the protest go fucking figure 9-9
Well, improvement doesn’t exist after all.
If her Walkyverse version wasn’t Joe’s wife, I’d likely agree. But nah, she’s gonna figure it out.
I realise this is kind of hypocritical from someone whose dislike of Roz stems about 60-70% from something she did in Shortpacked! (but nothing this Roz has said or done convinces me she wouldn’t have done it too), but I’m not sure that what Walkyverse characters did is a guarantee of anything.
People can change, but they don’t change across a set route that will always be the same regardless of other factors.
Well, no, it’s not about “Rachel is gonna be into Joe,” and honestly I’d prefer avoiding that. It’s more that everybody is still the same core person, just in a different scenario. Someone who is capable of becoming more open-minded in Walkyverse is likely still going to be capable of it in Dumbingverse. (That said, if Rachel suffers a traumatic experience or two, that can change things rather immensely.)
Of course she won’t, that would involve her changing, and she’s outright stated that never happens!
Honestly, I think the opposite. Rachel is paying attention, and while she pokes, it’s with far less vitriol. She ain’t there, but she is dealing with the challenge to her worldview
She’s just waiting for the other shoe to drop. She “knows” Joe is going to be unable to resist horndogging out, and she wants to be there to see it when it happens, so she can tell herself (and Joe) “There it is. that’s what I was expecting.”
Mary is more entertaining than Tall Rachel.
Tall Rachel might be an asshole, but she’s not as bad as Mary. Mary needs to take a long walk on a short pier.
I don’t disagree, but this doesn’t make much sense in context? The comment you replied to is about who’s more entertaining, not who’s a better person.
I suppose it’s because the people I find the most interesting are the characters that I like, or relate to. However you are right that I was not talking about the same thing as the original comment; my apologies.
That’s exactly WHY Mary’s more entertaining. Rachel’s a hardened super-cynic, you get nothing out of interactions with them. Everyone hates Mary, but at least she’s *fun* to hate!
Mary can be more entertaining as a villain, especially in her big arc with Carla and Ruth.
I’m more interested in Rachel – there are enough hints that there’s something behind her attitude that I’d like to know what it is.
No, Mary needs to give in to everything she’s ignored about herself and get with Carla. Then get pregnant. Then be abandoned by Carla because that’s “The ultimate prank.” Then she ends up with Jacob so it all works out.
As a trans girl I’ll cosign this because I cannot get enough of insane evil woman yuri.
Ew, no! Carla doesn’t deserve that.
And hotter! Let’s never forget hotter.
[Citation needed]
You actually don’t need citations for personal opinions.
Eh, they’re basically the same person, except Mary dresses up her moral superiority in God stuff and Rachel doesn’t.
Rachel made some awful comments about an recently suicidal abusive authority figure. Mary attempted to blackmail that same person for her own bigoted purposes. They’re not at all the same.
Even from the perspective of “a villainous character I enjoy hating” Mary hasn’t been entertaining since she got punched. She’s too much of a loser to take seriously as a villain but too much of a villain to laugh at her for being a loser so she’s just kind of vaguely unpleasant for no reason.
Rachel is a nothing character but that’s because we almost never see her, and when she says something mean she’s usually prompting another character to reflect on their character arc. Rachel is being mean so that Joe can have Deep Thoughts in response. She’s a Greek chorus commenting on the plot/themes pretending to be a character. And I get why people don’t like her but there’s a reason for her to be in this comic and she gets like three lines a year so she’s not worth getting mad about.
Rachel’s talking a lot to someone she supposedly despises.
sometimes you just gotta snipe/get teh last word in, i suppose
More wholesome Joe kind of reminds me of Superboy from Young Justice. I really like that show.
Heard good things about that show, but haven’t taken the plunge quite yet. Does it live up the mild hype I’ve heard about it?
If you enjoyed the animated series Gargoyles, you’ll probably enjoy it. It is very recognizably written in Greg Weisman’s style of storytelling.
Surely another Godzilla fan would not steer me wrong. Adored Gargoyles as a wee lad, so that’s certainly a point in its favor.
If you like superpowered dickheads bickering and betraying each other while they make out, you might like Young Justice.
I mean, my knee-jerk response to that would be “no, not really” but then I remembered how much I adore the lovable assholes that comprise the cast of Sword Art Online Abridged… Not to mention, as per your Castlevania avatar (one that serves as clear evidence of great taste), I’m tempted to argue that Treffy and Sypha kinda had that dynamic for a bit, at least in the beginning.
Depends on the season. I find it uneven, even within seasons, but enjoyable enough overall.
While I admit my affection for the show may just nostalgia as I watched it as a teenager and I found the fourth season and end of the second not very strong, I still deeply recommend the show. For a show for young adults I think it touches some strong themes and I deeply enjoy the characters and their very real development. It is also, I believe, the best representation of the Justice League. Not necessarily for character (they aren’t the focus of the show), but unlike many DC projects the world feels interconnected and believable. Rather than feeling like just 20 different heroes’ settings and rogue galleries mashed together with all the disjoint and power scaling problems that entails – the setting feels built from the ground up. To me it really seems like a world were Superman and the Flash would teem up with Batman, because they aren’t so powerful that he would not be a vital asset. It feels like a place where Lex Luther and the Joker would be willing and able to partner not simply because its a story that happens to have both Batman and Superman and they need somebody to fight, but because Metropolis and Gotham are two cities in the same nation connected by culture and friend groups and trade. The villains aren’t a slapped together group of weirdos that teamed up in a swamp just so they can beat up their rival heroes’ new friends, they are believable independent terrifying secret cabal with their own motivations the heroes are just in the way of it. I also love the show’s strong current of James Bond / Ocean’s 11 style spy thriller themes. Its more than just punching the villain of the week in the face till he stops his evil plans, its a continuous murky shadow war waged by the Justice League using their protege. It feels like the missions matter, not just because you don’t want Catwoman to get away with all those diamonds, but because the audience is aware that those diamonds are probably going to help fund the Madhatter’s mind control research so, he can help Vandal Savage destabilize Atlantis for Black Manta so he can hijack a nuclear sub or whatever. Its all connected and important. Its not crime-fighting its a war. A war waged by a fantastic cast of often delightfully dysfunctional teenage superheroes. Its great.
I like how every response Joe is giving could sound like a euphemism.
Gonna need a senzu for that one.
I understood that reference
SENZU BEAN! *Thwak*
Sarah’s looking good. But, she usually is.
Are we doing Rachel/Joe? Is that where this has always been going? I confess I had my doubts, but the Do List storyline did give me an inkling…
I will always be a member of the Joe/Joyce diehards, but honestly I just want good things for Joe. At this point I will accept a 10 Things I Hate About You consolation prize.
Also Sarah continues to be an absolute delight, and I’m so glad this “season 2” running has given her more attention and development. Love seeing her come out of her shell!
One year later, buff Sarah and her baseball bat standing by Amazi-Girl facing off against a bunch of ICE thugs…
I sincerely doubt Joe would cheat on Joyce; that’s one line he won’t cross because of learning from his father’s mistakes.
Joe’s not gonna cheat on Joyce, Joyce is either gonna cheat on him outright or she’s gonna leave him for Dorothy. There’s no satisfying other way the Joyce/Joe/Dorothy/Walky conundrum can end, story-wise. Half the potential polycule hates the other half, half has the communication skills of a potato, and half has the self-esteem of a slightly more rotten potato. Joyce has her thing with Dorothy that’s the focus now, and it would be really weird to do all this build up around it just to turn it into a Shaggy Dog plotline. It sucks because I loved Joe/Joyce.
Personally, I’m holding out for Joe/Sarah now. He’s tall and athletic, she’s a good person still learning to be better than she was, it could work in a way. Him and Rachel would be fun in a destructive/self-destructive kind of way now though. Idk her enough to know if it could turn long term (only know a bit of her from the old comic)
(I point out Joe’s appearance because Sarah’s focus on dudes being tall is a potential point of contention between her and Tony, and really their “I was a jerk and am getting better” is a thing both of them share. Am tired and worded all of it poorly.)
Joe/Sarah would be really cute as well!
As Joe said, “Lucky Tony!”
I’ll say it over and over again: every node of a polycule does not need to date or even like every other person involved. I have had partners with partners who I couldn’t stand, but it’s not my job to police who they date so I just don’t hang around that particular person. It’s not difficult.
I am definitely on board for Sarah/Joe or Rachel/Joe if the polycule-that-was-foretold doesn’t happen and Joyce breaks up with him. Particularly if Tony (who I don’t trust in the slightest) proves me right and is a snake in some way. Potentially leaving Sarah and Joe distraught at the same time.
I know this too, because I was raised by a polycule and it absolutely sucked around the time they all started hating each other lol. I just do not believe the relationship can be healthy once it’s gotten to that point.
Like, Dorothy is a control freak. It is her main character flaw, it’s why she refuses to properly do therapy, it’s why she struggles so much with her PTSD. She would absolutely try to monopolize Joyce’s time in the polycule and undermine Joe. They aren’t even dating and she has done this several times. Joyce would likewise do the same to Walky though more aggressively (if less insidiously.) Joe doesn’t believe he deserves good things and may not actually like the idea of the polycule outside of his frat bro persona he’s abandoned. He will swallow his resentment and emotions just to make Joyce happy, which is a recipe for disaster in any relationship. Walky is basically in the same boat but in significant bigger risk of crashing out simply because he endures a lot of BS and he used to love Dorothy more than himself, so he could take Dorothy trying to fix him. I do not believe he would tolerate Joyce actively meddling in their relationship, especially not to the same extent Joe has already had to deal with. Dorothy and Walky SUCK at communicating with each other and with the other members of this polycule. Joyce is also evidently terrible at communication, but Joe is really good at it when he’s not self-loathing.
Like, any individual issue of that is enough to sink a monoamorous relationship, it’s part of what creates the stakes for Dorothy/Walky, Joe/Joyce, and Joyce/Dorothy. But adding ALL of them together irl just creates a miserable and toxic group of people who constantly hurt each other and everyone around them.
Like, this isn’t a knock against poly relationships. I think Dorothy/Walky/Amber/Amazigirl could work well and the polycule in the strip seem super cute and happy from what little we’ve seen. But these are all roughly in the same friend group and generally like to spend time together, Dorothy/Joyce/Joe/Walky would just compound all the worst parts of a relationship x4 because literally nobody gets what they actually want except for Joyce and *maybe* Dorothy (I honestly don’t think Dorothy *wants* to share Joyce with Joe period. I kind of question if she even actually wants Walky at this point or if she just wants the way he made her feel.)
Amber/Walky/Amazigirl/Dorothy would work because these characters kind of give each other space and tend to not enable each other’s worst tendencies, which is HILARIOUS because Garbage Skow kind of existed with intent to enable (but iirc it really seemed more like a means to cope than anything. It has been a hot minute though, I may very well be forgetting its worse aspects.) Amazigirl and Dorothy have a Superman/Lois Lane vibe too. Amber will be grateful for Walky giving her alone time to spend time with Dorothy, Amazigirl can help Dorothy deal with some trauma and encourage her to get help (which isn’t the point of a relationship, but Dorothy needs someone who can be real with her and Joyce and Walky just can’t. She’s on a pedestal, even if it’s cracked for the latter.) Amber and Dorothy would never have to hang out because they hang in different circles, but even if they did then Amber could probably help Dorothy with her grades and burn out pretty well, even accidentally. Walky and Amazigirl are in the NotBat Family, so that’s their dynamic. Dorothy can join the NotBat Family too lol.
Like, idk. I feel like I ramble and complain a lot because I do, but I would just really rather see that than Dorothy and Joyce trying to make their thing work at all. I really do think they play into each other’s worst aspects way too often and that Dorothy does lean on fixing people way too much. She could try to “fix” Amazigirl, but Amazigirl has the backbone to shut that down, and I think Dorothy needs more people in her life who can do that without immediately also going “You wanted to be presiden in abstract, therefore you are literally the biggest scumbag I’ve ever met.”
I mean, I don’t think it’s very narratively satisfying to spend years building up to Joe and Joyce dating just to immediately break them up so I doubt that’s happening either
Oh don’t get me wrong, it would be immensely aggravating and unsatisfying for me too, but they’ve at least like had some storylines together as a couple and it’s more development for Joe having to deal with literally his worst nightmare happening and whether he can continue to improve in spite of it. I can see the bigger appeal of that storyline over “Joyce and Dorothy just stay friends and Dorothy continues to be the exact same spiral she was before this massive drama dangling over our heads.”
Willis agreed with this take! Which is why this didn’t happen in 2023, and is instead happening now.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/123792318?collection=71747
^ one of several posts about the sequence as Willis tried to re-start it several times after that, before we got the version we have now.
(I’m still hoping for poly.)
I do not like your words. I don’t really have a counterargument for most of them, nor do I disagree with the points you make, but I don’t like them.
I feel like we’re not doing that in terms of romance, as the two were endgame in Walkyverse, and Willis has usually refrained from reruns from there.
I feel like there are a good chunk of DOA interactions that exist to prove if certain ships from the original Walkyverse could still exist in DOA. We know Joyce and Walky went absolutely nowhere but i still don’t believe them as a couple again is outright impossible… But very very much something that would probably only come to fruition in the very far future.
I think Joe and Sarah here vs there is a good example of what i mean, in roomies the two got together because boy central cast member and girl central cast member which is how a lot of the main ships worked back then. So much of DoA feels like it’s reexamining those relationships but with the characters being more realistic. Sarah fucking hated Joe up until pretty much this chapter but Rachel isn’t too far off from how she was in IW! with her immediately viewing Joe as an annoying sex pest foremost and secretly a kind gentle sensitive sweetheart last.
The twist this time is RACHEL has to put in the effort. She has to get off her high horse and stop judging folks from a distance. Outside of hints at being attracted to him and acting like a third grader about it she has no real desire TO change or at least change how she views people.
I think Rachel/Joe is still a valid ship especially if things DO go south with Joyce which they could at any time or moment. It could give us time to finally unpack her whole deal with Ruth and what happened during her first semester.
My personal conspiracy theory is that our fearless leader, I mean author, intentionally makes sure that the canon pairings from other comics are completely untenable in this one. For the sole purpose of messing with us, especially the long time fans. Exempli gratia; Joyce and Walky got together in another universe, so in this one, they can’t stand each other. See also Mike and Amber, Leslie and Robin, and as I suspect, Rachel and Joe.
But then what do you make of Danny/Sal?
Doomed in the Walkyverse, so it can be reworked in this one.
Is it possible for two people of compatable genders to start out hating each other, then … just be friends? I feel like that’s something that’s possible.
And if it’s not, then Joe needs to end up with Rachel and Sarah.
I would like to unpack “compatible genders” for 300, Alex.
Basic understanding would seem to be “people who’s genders are compatible to each other’s sexual orientations.” Like a straight guy and a straight girl, in this case (presumably). At least, that’s what seems like the obvious meaning to me.
Honestly, the funnies scenario would be Rachel throws herself at him, half in a insistence to prove her own point about him and half because of perverse sexual lust, and he’s just like “Ew, No.” and that’s the end of it.
I support this because I will always support having more deranged women.
Is that a cute Joe smile in panel 4? I could be wrong but it looks like a smile to me at least.
fourth panel smile club roll call!
yeah probably, since htey are on friendly terms as opposed to joe being similar to dina and not having the social energy to give a smile with a greeting/farewell
Oh good it’s Rachel, a much lower-grade insufferable than the Mary we’ve been subjected to lately.
Nice little palette cleanser.
Rachel continues to needle him with unnecessary commentary on his life. Girl, aren’t you bored of this?
She doesn’t have a real hobby, so I guess this is what she does instead.
Follows Joe around half the week and Ruth the other half. Great way to get her steps in, at least
It is much easier to offer commentary on the speck in another’s eye than the log in one’s own.
Rachel gives strong slacktivist, uncompromising uselessness energy.
imagine how much her brain would explode if she knew that she and joe were married with carla as their daughter in Shortpacked! (and i assume its walky, didn’t read that one)
Roomies!, It’s Walky!, Joyce & Walky!, Shortpacked!, and It’s Pregnancy! are all one continuity.
zingers
Light her on fire and make her run off a cliff like Denethor.
LOL
on that note, is it just me or does the writing on the flag of the Stewards of Gondor seem to resemble Arabic / Hebrew cursive?
Granted his list was beyond awful, but does Joe actually have a reputation for bothering anyone after they say no? He’s always been quick to back off. And he and Sarah have been frienemies (for lack of a better word) for a while. I get that Rachel despises him but she’s making stuff up at this point, and I don’t respect that.
Yeah, everyone pretty much forgave joe/accepted the ‘apology’ donuts and otherwise don’t really go outta their way to avoid or befriend him
maybe that’s also why she’s not at the protest, since she would think doing something like that would’n’t make a diff
yes
for example, he did it to Rachel
and Sarah
but folks do tend to forget that
like I’m not saying Joe hasn’t massively improved on pretty much every level, I’m not saying he should be harangued about this forever, but: yes, he definitely made both Sarah and Rachel say no more than once…
Yep! People tend to forget a lot of things Joe has done in the “past” (here meaning “a few months ago for these people”).
Mmhmm. 🙂↕️
Yeah actually you kinda had to scream NO in his face for him to get it, like Sarah and Rachel did. Otherwise he’d do the whole “she’s just playing hard to get” or “I don’t back down from a challenge” type thing. Even if joe wasn’t intended to be that bad, remember the public idea of what consent is was pretty bad until like, within the last ten years? I don’t really feel like going into it so just watch this really well made video about rape culture by a very smart lady. This comic started in 2010 and a lot of the consent violating things Joe said and did were just part of normal tv dudebro lady’s man cultrue.
https://youtu.be/Qfpj5qQr9KA?si=3Rv0iHRodDy62wse (sorry if this goes against tos? The video is “how men become Aziz Ansari by olurnatti. CW for everything you’d expect from a video breaking down a celebrity sexual assault case and rape culture)
I’ve said it before, but one of the most frustrating things about old Joe for me is that we never really got a look at how he worked. We saw him mostly back off when he got told forcefully to do so – like Sarah and Rachel (Mostly, since he’d come back and comment again). We saw that he did hook up with Roz and Penny, but not how that started and they were both likely to initiate it themselves (as Malaya did later).
We never saw him successfully approach anyone. We never saw him deal with anyone who wasn’t interested and maybe even uncomfortable, but not willing to be as forceful about as Sarah and Rachel were.
This lets people invent their own Joe, painting him better or worse than he actually was.
It might be interesting to have him run into one of his previous conquests, who might not be entirely pleased with the experience.
Ty for the link.
Really hope Rachel realizes that people actually can change for the better someday. Joe seems to be pretty good evidence of that, if she’s willing to believe it.
even if she’s willing to ‘accept’ joe as he is i wouldn’t be surprised if ruth aside, she had some parental/relatives issues that’d make it harder since it’s something you might have to live with as opposed to her being full no contact with those ppl she thinks can’t change after graduating
Rachel’s argument isn’t that Joe specifically can’t change, she doesn’t believe that character growth is conceptually possible for anyone in any circumstance.
And I was going to make a joke about how too bad she can’t change into an interesting character do ho ho ho, but that made me realize how much this comic would benefit from Statler and Waldorf following people around. Every comic would, of course, but especially this one because there are a lot of characters already who kind of greek chorus like that.
There are very few things in life that would not be improved by the inclusion of Statler and Waldorf. See also dinosaurs.
Carla so badly wants to be that kind of person but she doesn’t have the sauce to be a hate but…hear me out here: Pair her up with Becky and have them follow Mary and/or Rachel around in a hot air balloon tossing insults and popcorn.
I can’t remember if they’ve even interacted yet… but might I offer a variation on that premise? Booster and Becky? I’m almost definitely biased because I adore them, and would love to see how their banter would bounce off each other.
This is a good point! I feel like Booster is interesting to imagine with Becky because of Booster’s psychoanalysis trait. Becky wears a lot on her sleeve, so maybe harder for Booster to get under her skin. On the other hand, Booster is maybe the personification of the thing Becky’s currently most scared of.
Have we watched Dina and Booster talk? She’s perhaps the most likely to be immune to Booster’s dubious superpower. And possibly crush them for a week with something insightful. I know she’s had her adventures with Charlie, don’t recall her Booster interactions.
I just realized that it’s dubious who she thought was going to attempt to seduce here. Rachel’s last interaction with Sarah was when she was going around in the halls literally asking people to seduce someone for her. I know on-screen Sarah didn’t tell her what she was doing, but likely she caught wind early.
I absolutely want to see Carla in a hot air balloon, wearing top hat and tux with tails. I don’t care if it’s Around the World in 80 Days or Wizard of Oz, I think either would be fantastic.
Statler and Waldorf are as old as dinosaurs.
Dohoho
Statler has really short legs, which makes him look… kinda cute. But I suspect that is not the point, here!
I still think that this sort of bluster is reserved for people who’ve seriously wronged her and isn’t the universally applied belief that the comments section seems to think it is.
Ruth is an alcoholic who we’ve seen force herself on someone, so it’s not a stretch to think about what might’ve happened there, and Joe labelling her the hottest girl on campus with more or less directions to where she lives at a time when there was a rapist on campus could easily have dredged feelings about that back up. She’s justified in holding a grudge for a few months.
Rachel’s issue with Ruth was fueled by their backstreet as well as Ruth abusing her power as RA. While the alcoholism could be part of their backstreet (though I doubt it bc if Rachel had dirt Ruth was underage drinking surely she’d squeal to be rid of her) I don’t think she hit on Rachel. Ruth’s attraction to Billie is treated as if it’s her bi awakening. Also if Ruth tried to hit on her and it went sour I’d think Rachel would refuse to be in the same residence hall as her. And surely it would have come up when… you know, Ruth was found out to actually be sleeping with one of her charges.
Autocorrect turned backstory into backstreet.
At the very least, people seem to be treating it as a philosophical belief she arrived at through abstract reasoning, rather than a lessons learned through trauma kind of thing.
And both Ruth’s abusive, bullying behavior and Joe’s creepy near-predatory behavior are both things that people often performatively apologize for when it’s called out, but then go on to repeat.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that Rachel is actually 100% correct and the reason people dislike her is that they can’t handle the truth. Does anyone seriously think we’re getting a Mary redemption arc, or, like, Incelerator learns to respect women? No, of course, it’s ludicrous. Every single villain in Dumbing of Age is 100% irredeemably evil, and Rachel is entirely correct to note this. Her only error is putting Joe in the “evil” category and not the “good person from the jump who was rude once” category with Ruth.
Rachel, you’ve moved from insulting him in a space you were forced to share to stalking him in the halls.
Wonder if we’ll see a run in of someone from rachels past that calls her out if not ppl pointing out her hypocrisy like “that means you’ll never change and get better than your worst moment”
I really would like to know who wronged her and whether it was Ruth but Ruth doesn’t even remember.
Um, since when are there weight machines in the halls?
Um, since um, since um, since um, since it’s a non-literal fuckin’ expression, put your pants back on.
And by “stalking” you mean, “going to work out and he happened to be there”
I mean, “by having physically left the weight room and continuing to engage him in conversation despite having made your desire to never speak to him again clear.”
What’s your definition of stalking?
They’re still in the same room they were already in. Only Sarah left.
re: alt-text — I mean, Zingers are cream-filled tubes. . .
Cover ears with both hands, and then the eyes with 2 more hands
Add one last pair to cover the feet and you’ve got yourself the full Biblically-accurate seraphim package.
Why does Joe hang out with Rachel when all she does is make mildly pretentious chorus remarks about her philosophical objections to his character arc that clearly annoy him? I guess as a comic character he’s metaphysically doomed to endless banter but everyone in this comic would be a lot happier if they learned to treat the toxic villains in their life with a pre-emptive “fuck off”.
Would you call this hanging out? He’s just not making an effort to leave the situation she created, and I think that’s fair since he was here before her and should get to continue his activity whether she likes it or not.
He doesn’t. By his own words, he’s been actively avoiding her. She’s the one insisting on hovering.
She’s the one talking to him again when she could just ignore him, but other than that, “hovering” is just going on with her workout.
If I remember correctly, Joe was already working out there before Rachel showed up. And he’s been doing his best to avoid her for a while.
This is going to end with Rachel wanting to fuck Joe and Joe having to turn her down, isn’t it.
Given that they are a couple in the Walkyverse, mmm, yeah
The first half of it has already happened. She’s making active effort to keep in orbit here.
I’m still not down with all the Rachel-hating.
It seems to me she’s just speaking from experience.
😐
Willis said on Patreon that Rachel is an artificial human created immediately before Ruth’s first semester. Her lived experience is like one year, so far.
In other words, she really is two little aliens in a Rachel suit?
Well now I’m just imagining the whole bit from Men in Black, where the faces folded out to reveal a cockpit for a tiny little alien dude. Calling it now, “Rachel” is naught but a robotic vessel for an Arquillian dignitary.
What about Other Rachel?
And she’s still speaking long after she made her (horribly misguided) point.
In a wacky coincidence given the subject they’re discussion, this is Rachel’s 69th tagged appearance in Dumbing of Age
Which is also to say she’s a character who almost never appears and when she does she’s just kind of blandly mean to characters we like more, so it’s not really surprising people don’t like her even though she’s literally never done anything.
Tbf, when she was mean to Joe the first time it was when we still didn’t like him because he was a creep, and anything but bland.
um, 59th?
I feel like she’s somewhat entitled to not trusting or liking Joe, but I don’t understand why she wants to talk to him so badly if the things she’s saying out loud are her true feelings. I’ve always avoided people like early-Joe like my life depended on it, and would especially so after the do-list (because let’s be honest, most bros like that in real life double down rather than reflect and mature.) I don’t hate her at all, but the scenes with these two are really uncomfortable and one-note, with her continuing to initiate them.
Go away Rachel. The real you and Joe never had much on screen chemistry in Shortpacked! I don’t remember when you were replaced with an alien.
FFS, woman. You had your say. Now you’re just being a bongo for bongoness’ sake.
While we cannot know what happened to Rachel to make her this pessimistic, I can understand that something really rough must have happened to tarnish her opinion of humanity. I’ve been there before, maybe not on this consistent intensity to the point where I actually voice all the bitter little musings buzzing around my cerebellum… but bitterness and pessimism? I get it. I’ll try not to judge. Walk a mile in someone’s shoes and all that.
That said, I get a very big grin seeing Joe stand up for himself here. His transformation from promiscuous playboy to wholesome boyfriend material has been a delight. His old self used to give me the ick, seeing how hard he’s worked to move passed it turned him into one of my fave characters.
Love me a good, well-told, and deserved redemption arc.
I like both that A. Joe gets a little smile in panel 4, like he’s very much enjoying this little dynamic he and Sarah have lately, with a reached accord, and B. that he sasses Rachel in the final panel.
Joe has been shown to be pretty patient and understanding of people who have gripes with him in recent times, but he’s human, and perfectly capable of finding tedious behavior tedious.
I don’t actually hate Rachel or anything, and know we’ve seen she’s really not much fonder of Ruth or a big believer she could change, either, so if nothing else, she’s not singling him out entirely.
No, she doesn’t single people out. She’s very sure that she’s better than everyone.
Geez Rachel, it’s not always about you
I’m now thinking Rachel spent months preparing all sorts of Joe insults and arguments to make him feel bad so his avoiding her has really irritated her. However, he’s also giving her no ammunition.
Maybe she believes he’s secretly the Incellerator.
This horse doesn’t deserve to be beat this much post mortem
Rachel appears in a panel, so the comments section will be extremely normal.
There’s always someone saying something like this.
Which means they’re right. That is normal for the comments section.
If the comments section didn’t deliver a ton of unhinged remarks(you in particular after looking over this strip’s comments, wow), maybe there wouldn’t always be someone saying something like this.
What the heck are you talking about, “me in particular”?🤨
“Light her on fire and make her run off a cliff like Denethor.” That’s well over the line for unhinged.
It’s literally harmless.
Sure thing. Only 13 minutes until another Rachel strip for you to fantasize about the horrible death of a woman again. Can’t wait!
Rachel starts to remind me of that one Watamote character who constantly keeps calling the protagonist a creep (not entirely unfounded) but is OBVIOUSLY a perv herself and wants in on that action.
After restarting gym after having stopped such activities for a long time, I couldn’t get out of my bath-tub on my own. It was silly.
I really like how Sarah’s philosophy is neatly packaged here in a more positive context. She and Joe are actually a lot alike, even though their choice of social repellent is different. It’s nice to see them hang out.
You now gave me this mental image of Joe and Sarah all ripped walking into that protest and wrecking whoever might be causing problems for Joyce and Dotty. Like that little segment from the Devil episode of Rick and Morty where Rick and Summer got ripped and started beating up assholes?
Joe’s delivering zingers…from KFC because he’s a DoorDash driver now
This strip caps out at 2 and a half book titles
Hell yeah Joe
Joe as a future Physical Trainer, perhaps?
“You’ll Hurt in Places You Didn’t Know You Could Hurt” 📘 uh yeah, why do you think I have a Hurt Locker
Spending a lot of time initiating conversation with someone you claim to not like there, Rachel
Of course, but he also wants to be a chief. I wonder how will be conciliate dreams with his knowledge.
Nutritionist/trainer. good stuff in, good work out.
I’m mostly a little confused by Rachel at points. Like if people never change why hang around them?
I do have some sympathy for people embittered by the idea people can’t, especially as wider society can often weaponise the idea of forgiveness (at least as it pertains to people in power who commit wrongdoing as it usually is), but why are you interacting girl?
Granted she isn’t much in the comic so maybe she generally doesn’t but it has ‘someone is wrong on the internet’ kind of energy I guess.
If she doesn’t hang around them, she can’t lord over them how much she’s right and they haven’t changed.
Damn i thought new Joe was a bit of a pushover but i guess that’s just with people he likes. He’s still got bark and bite
Joe-tastic!
I have a prediction, Rachel will try to seduce Joe to prove she’s right about people not changing. Whether it will work or not is up to where Willis wants the story to go.
Calling Joe spirals after he catches Dotty and Joyce and he eventually winds up banging Rachel because what’s the point in trying when even JOYCE cheats?
I honestly hope not: I really like this path of healing and improving a lot of the characters are on, I’d hate to see them regress
That’s not a very Amber-like reply.
Joe knows the drill about training 😔
Poor Sarah (also, good for her)
You know, Joe able to control his base urges might become an amazing personal trainer.
Joe has really grown, from a potential target of a baseball batting to helping the batter improve her batting arms.
sarah is sweaty
joe has been helping sarah and not doing his own thing so he’s not sweaty
but the implication of rachel being normal must be that rachel has been just sort of standing there watching them the the entire time or perhaps using an exercise bike at walking speed
She doesn’t sweat because she’s actually a robot duplicate piloted by an Alien.
Pre-conceived notions are hard to get out of.
But I think it’s important to note that it’s only been about… what, 4 months since Joe made the List?
I can buy he could change significantly during that time… but also buy a lot of people staying the same too. Rachel hasn’t seen much of his development other than his apology tour, which she rightfully called out, and now… this.
Part of the point of Rachel, I suspect, is that not everyone will believe you when you try to change and certainly not everyone will forgive you for the shit you used to do. We kind of saw a bit of that aimed at Joe from Dorothy and from Sarah, but Dorothy’s motives were complicated by her own feelings for Joyce and both of them were close enough to Joyce that they needed to come around or just make things awkward for ever.
So Rachel gets that role. Which is undercut by her being obviously shitty and overly obsessed about the “never change” thing, rather than justifiably untrusting of Joe’s complete reversal.
rachel sucks so much
Maybe Joe’s career should be personal trainer
You know what I’m gonna ignore. Gestures in a circle. And say once again good for Sarah. She did something hard and followed through on it, sought out help from someone she knows, and got a lot out of it. We are seeing growth.